John Reacts to Mel Galbraith IFS Interview
John Reacts to Mel Galbraith IFS Interview
In this solo episode, I reflect on my recent conversation with Mel Galbraith, the COO of IFSCA, and dive deeper into the challenges of practicing Internal Family Systems (IFS). I talk about the tricky balance therapists often face—how easy it is to show up with the best intentions, but accidentally lead from self-like parts instead of true self-energy. You’ll hear me share some personal insights on why slowing down is so essential in this work, why letting go of an agenda actually helps clients go deeper, and how even seasoned therapists can unknowingly blend with their own parts. I also unpack one of the biggest paradoxes in IFS: when we stop trying to make something happen, that's when real healing starts. This episode is perfect for therapists and coaches who are interested in their own inner healing, as well as the inner healing of their clients.
Why IFS is “simple but not easy” — and why that matters for therapists and clients alike
The hidden challenge of self-like parts and how they disrupt therapy without you noticing
How to spot when you (as a therapist) are blending with your own parts during a session
Why interventions often backfire — and what IFS teaches us about honoring protector parts
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Interview Transcript:
[00:00:00] I think a reason why IFS can be really tricky to do is, number one, the model itself is, as my martial arts instructor would say, simple but not easy. Simple, but not easy.
Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. I. Join me trauma therapist John Clark for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, going inside is your companion on the path to healing and self-discovery.
Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one-on-one at John Clark therapy.com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in.
Hey, thanks for spending this time with me. So in today's episode, I wanted to do something a little, um, unusual, which is do a solo episode where I'm basically kind of reflecting on our last episode, which was my. Interview with Mel [00:01:00] Galbrath. She's the, um, COO, uh, of I-F-S-C-A where they run Stepping Stones.
Uh, stepping Stones is the IFS program that I first went to, to learn the model from my then, uh, teacher and, and, uh, uh, Derek Scott, who has since passed. And so, you know, having Mel on the show is, uh, yeah, a real treat and a really special thing for me and also something where, um, I just learned so much from her, so, so much.
And so it's interesting this thing where I'm both in the episode and in the interview and I'm doing the interview, um, I. But then when I watch the interview back or I listen to it, there's, I'm kind of experiencing it all over again or experiencing it new, uh, as if for the first time, because yeah, when I'm in it, I'm in it.
And kind of thinking of the next question and being an interviewer while also sharing a lot of my own ideas. And then after the fact, I can [00:02:00] kind of enjoy the episode, um, as a listener. And so. I wanted to reflect a little bit on that. Um, first of all, you know, on this topic in general of self-like parts.
And I think, um, a reason why IFS can be, um, I. Really tricky to do is number one, the model itself is, as my martial arts instructor would say, simple but not easy. Simple, but not easy. It's simple to understand. The concepts are simple enough, but it's actually very hard to do gracefully and fluidly and do it well.
It's very hard to stay rooted in self energy for most of the session or for an entire session or. Better yet for therapists, like most therapists, seeing 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 clients a day and staying in yourself energy for seven hours a day is kind of an incredible feat. If you can do it, it's a very tall order, especially knowing that, um, we [00:03:00] all get activated all the time for various reasons.
We have stuff that hooks in. To our parts and to our personal stuff, our baggage, so to speak, and into our core wounding. And then we're off and running. We're in that activation, and we're kind of battling that activation in a way, while also trying to be very present and completely with your client.
So it's a delicate dance that we're doing with our clients and with our own parts and trying to help our clients do that dance with their own parts. And I think in, in some ways, a reason why. You know, the training for IFS is so coveted and quite protected is number one, this model is so powerful and can do damage.
So the institute knows that. And number two is, um, self-like parts can be really convincing in their disguises, self-like parts that come into the system and that are actually leading the dance. A therapist or a practitioner is doing IFS [00:04:00] and these parts that naturally want to come in and they want to save, they wanna rescue, they wanna protect, um, they want the healing to happen, which is on one hand, uh, a, a completely healthy motivation for therapy.
And as a therapist, right, you want your clients to get better. On the other hand, it can become this self-like agenda. And we know that parts. Have agendas, self does not. So as you're sitting there as a therapist, it's so, so hard to do, to really have no agenda for your client, to really sit there and literally hold space in marks, which really just means I'm, I'm holding space in self energy.
In creating invitations or offering invitations for the client to get to know their parts. If they want to befriend their parts, if they want to ask the part about its fears, if they want right, to bring the part all the way into the present if, if they want, [00:05:00] and on and on. But to really let go of the reins completely and, and, and find this sense that deep inside, I don't need anything to happen here in this session.
I don't need you to get better, at least not for me. Which is different from in my heart and in my heart of hearts. I have hope that you get to where you're going in life. I have hope that you find the healing that you're seeking. This is, again, very different from, there's a part of me that really needs you to get better or needs you to get something out of this session.
There's a part of me that needs you to think I'm a good therapist. There's a part of me that, um, needs you to, um. Uh, uh, not relapse or not drink, or not stay with this abusive partner, right? Because there's parts of me that fear that we can't handle it. There's parts of me where it hooks into my own stuff and I can't handle it, right?
There's parts of me that find anger, uh, repulsive and so parts of me need to shut it down. So I come in with the [00:06:00] client work and offer all sorts of coping skills and deep breathing. 'cause I'm really just trying to get rid of the anger. 'cause it's unacceptable to parts of me that I haven't helped yet.
I haven't healed those parts of me yet, and so that's a big piece of what I took away from this conversation with Mel self-like parts and the way they can come in and blend with us. And for many therapists, you know, learning your self-like parts, your therapist parts and learning to gracefully and in the moment, unblend from them is a big part of what IFS training is about.
In my experience, working with your own system to the point where your system. Doesn't get in the way of the client system, basically, you know, and if you were trained initially, like I was all the way back in grad school, you were trained to think of this as transference or counter transference, right?
When a client's issues stir up your own issues and they just make, they make the work and the therapeutic relationship a bit foggier, right? It's hard to [00:07:00] see the client clearly. So as a therapist, if you find your client or you find the session, uh, boring. Or overwhelming, or you find yourself yawning or dissociating or you find yourself extremely invested, right?
These are all examples of, of when our parts have gotten activated, right? So we have to know that. And one way that I often know that is when I have physical tension in my body, right? My body has kind of, um. Uh, express to me or my parts have communicated to me through my body that a part is here, a part is active and there's a part with a concern here.
And my job is to go toward that part and be with it to unblend from it in whatever way I can. Right? Ask it for space, breathe some space in between me and the part, validate its fear. Remind the part that I'm here, right? That self is here and self is capable of doing this therapy session, right. Asking the part for space so that I can be here for the [00:08:00] client and hold this space for the client as best as best I can.
Right? And maybe I can check in with that part of me at the end of the session or whatever it might be. So there's a lot of ways to do it. And again, this stuff is so sneaky and so subtle and a lot of practitioners, you know, we can think we're doing really good work. But we are actually pretty blended with a self-like part or a part that has an agenda, right?
Or a part that really wants to find the exile. You know, Derek would call it like exile hunting, right? It's like a witch hunt. We're not hunting for exiles here in this work. That's not what the model's about. Right? And you know, the paradox is when you don't need anything to happen in IFS, stuff starts happening Paradoxically, right?
When I'm lacking any agenda, a natural agenda arises and the parts start, you know, uh, creating these moments. Right. And the parts show you that they're ready to unblend or show you they're ready to unburden or whatever it is, and then the work just kind of takes off. [00:09:00] Right. So I really, um, yeah, it just took so much from this episode with, with Mel.
Um. Yeah, we talked about how, uh, again, clients feel safer and they go deeper when therapists can release their, their agenda, right, and be with the parts of them that have agendas, right? And the client can kind of relax into the self energy of the room, of the relationship and of, of the therapist, right?
And again, when the part feels like nothing needs to happen here, then stuff starts happening. I gave this example of, you know, this is why, um, interventions don't work, right? You sit down, you got a room of seven people, and we go, we all really love you and we're worried about you, but we need you to change.
Right? Again, all well intending stuff here, but there's a reason why it doesn't work. A, an intervention like that just creates a tremendous protector reaction, right? The person might even grin and bear it and go along with it, and they might have a manager part that's like, sure, yeah, I'll go to rehab.
This makes sense. I do know my drinking's a problem, blah, blah, [00:10:00] blah. Right? But then a month later, two months later, whatever, they relapse twice as hard. I. And this can be really dangerous stuff and really scary stuff. So we have to really honor people's systems and honor the protective nature of protectors in the first place and go incredibly slow with the work.
You know, the more I learn about this model, the more I realize I should go slow. I should go even slower than I think, right? This is something that Frank Anderson. Said at a training I was at, you know, uh, a couple years ago, whenever it was, um, that go slow. You go slower than you think and that most therapists out there doing IFS are going too fast.
And I think that's probably true and I've been guilty of it as well. 'cause again, we want to help and we want the healing to be there. But, you know, trauma happens fast. It's something that was too much, too fast, too soon. And with not enough help. And so therapy has to be the opposite of that. Therapy has to be the counter of that.
It has to be slow titrated healing, right? [00:11:00] Slow titrated release, slow titrated reprocessing. And um, and on and on we go. So these are some things that I've been thinking about lately and I just wanted to hop on basically a reason, an excuse to do an episode here. Uh, to react to that, that interview. So if you haven't checked out that interview with Mel, I highly encourage you to check it out.
Um, I also just wanna thank you for a second for being along for the ride, for tuning into going inside, for checking out my work and supporting my work. It just means the world to me. Um, I don't know what's ahead or um, even what episode will be next week. We've gotten a little behind, but I'm excited to keep serving you all in this way, and as long as people are listening and getting something out of it, then I, I plan to keep doing it.
I hope to keep doing it if I've got the energy and space for it. So thank you for being here. So far, and if you have been liking it, please send your favorite episode to a friend or to a client or to another therapist or whomever, anyone interested in [00:12:00] getting to know themselves a little bit more. Please share, um, this show or this YouTube channel and make sure you're helping me get the word out.
That's the best way that you can, um, kind of helped me out in this capacity. So, um, I hope this was helpful. Thanks again for, um, tuning into this episode and I'll see you in the next one. Take care. See you soon.
Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at John Clark therapy and apply to work with me one-on-one at John Clark therapy.com.
See you next time.