Childhood Trauma and IFS with Jalon Johnson

Childhood Trauma and IFS with Jalon Johnson

In this episode of "Going Inside: Healing Trauma From The Inside Out," I am joined by Jalon Johnson for a deep conversation on the journey of healing, self-discovery, and the transformative impact of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy on childhood trauma. Together, we explore Jalon's personal experiences, reflecting on the challenges, triumphs, and profound insights gained along the way.

Key Topics Discussed:

1.  Unresolved Trauma's Long-Term Effects:

Jalon candidly shares how unresolved childhood trauma continues to shape his adult life and relationships.2. How IFS helps individuals understand and work with their inner parts to achieve self-healing.

2. Complexities of Family Dynamics:

We navigate the complexities of family relationships, discussing the struggles of protecting loved ones while dealing with personal healing.

3. Taking Ownership of Healing:

Jalon's journey towards reclaiming agency and empowerment in his healing journey is a focal point, highlighting the importance of proactive self-care.

4. Reconnecting with Inner Child:

Our conversation delves into the practice of reparenting and inner child work in IFS therapy, showcasing how these approaches facilitate deep healing and self-understanding.

5. Real-Life Application of Therapeutic Insights:

We explore bridging therapeutic concepts with everyday experiences, making healing relatable and accessible to listeners navigating their healing paths.

Learn more about Jalon John through his podcast “Not Your Ordinary Parts” or follow him on https://www.instagram.com/notyourordinaryparts

Interview Transcript:

[00:00:00] Jalon: Reparenting that inner child is, is hard because for me, I didn't want to have to be the one to go back and do it. I wanted to have it from the people who should have been able to give it to me. You know, absolutely. 

[00:00:14] John: Absolutely. 

[00:00:15] Jalon: And , I think there's a big part of me that feels cheated, but also in the process of reparenting.

[00:00:24] Jalon: I'm not only doing it for me, but I'm also doing it for my son. So now it's twofold on the other side, which, which can, and does at times make me feel validated because I never knew that I was going to be the one that would have to do the things that I didn't get from the people who should have given it to me.

[00:00:43] Jalon: But. And being able to give it to myself, I'm also able to give it to him.

[00:00:53] John: Going inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me, [00:01:00] trauma therapist, John Clark for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, going inside is your companion on the path to healing and self discovery.

[00:01:17] John: Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one on one at johnclarktherapy. com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Jalon Johnson is the podcast host of Not Your Ordinary Parts, and he describes himself as an everyday guy who wanted more and knew somehow, somewhere there was more, and he found it in therapy.

[00:01:38] John: Therapies allowed space for him to let go of a lot of burdens that were never his to carry, and his experience in therapy turned into the creation of a podcast where he interviews therapists and allows for others to have a window into his healing journey. The theme of his podcast is a black man determined to get vulnerable, feel his feelings, talk about his emotions, heal, and [00:02:00] inspire others to do the same.

[00:02:02] John: Jalon, thanks so much for, for being here. And yeah, welcome to the show. 

[00:02:07] Jalon: Thanks for having me, John. It's a pleasure. 

[00:02:10] John: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you can set us up here a little bit more as to what we're going to do today or any more that you want to expand on kind of the bio as to who you are and how you got here, or even just what you've been up to lately in the realm of your healing work, your podcast.

[00:02:25] John: All that good stuff. 

[00:02:26] Jalon: Sure. Sure. I don't know if I'll ever get used to being interviewed by a therapist. Just looking and seeing, you know, all the things on your wall. I'm just like, wow, like why on earth would he want to interview me? Right. That was a part of me. 

[00:02:40] John: Many reasons. 

[00:02:42] Jalon: But you know, as we were kind of getting to know each other before we started recording and chatting, I, I've always been a sensitive guy, you know, a sensitive little guy, I'll say, because that's still one of the biggest parts of who I am is my little guy inside.

[00:02:58] Jalon: And I just [00:03:00] wasn't okay with accepting the things that I saw my caregivers and adults around me doing because it just didn't feel right. And somehow I knew that I didn't have to accept their trauma responses and their ways of being. as my own because they never felt good to me. But I also had no choice because I was a kid.

[00:03:26] Jalon: So it was almost like I had to wear these uncomfortable shoes all through life until I got to a point to where, you know, I could buy my own shoes, so to speak. And And I didn't, I didn't know how to take those shoes off, but they were uncomfortable and I had gotten kind of just adjusted to the discomfort because it was all I saw around me.

[00:03:51] Jalon: And then I started therapy and therapy allowed me to take those shoes off and have some peace [00:04:00] and rest from the discomfort. You know, and I learned so much about what unhealthy family systems will perpetuate generational trauma. And just trauma in general. I realized I was anxious. And I didn't know that it was anxiety.

[00:04:16] Jalon: I just thought that is, you know, a part of life. And the first time I had like, I felt rest internally and my nervous system was, was able to, you know, not be activated 24 seven for no reason is what it felt like to me. I knew I was kind of on the right path. 

[00:04:38] John: Yeah, man. Well. Most therapists, myself included, love a good metaphor.

[00:04:43] John: So you've given some wonderful ones there to kick things off with. I'll throw one more in there, which is this new lens is kind of like you know, growing up for, for me, I didn't know what seeing clearly was until I got glasses [00:05:00] and then all of a sudden realize all this vivid detail or this is what a stop sign actually looks like or how sharp things could be.

[00:05:06] John: So there is that just came to mind in thinking about your journey and kind of like not knowing what's normal or even this idea of like feeling safe internally. Is often not something we have a mental snapshot of until number one, we're out of the environment or the context or the developmental age in which things were not safe.

[00:05:26] John: Right. Or maybe not consistently safe. And then all of a sudden, you know, we're kind of left to pick up the pieces as adults and figuring out, you know, What was my childhood really like? And what am I still carrying? Outside of what was my childhood? Like, what are the greater cultural burdens that I'm carrying that were never mine to begin with when I was born?

[00:05:47] John: And I know that's been, yeah, part of your journey too, from what we talked about yesterday. 

[00:05:52] Jalon: Yeah, I was well, number one, I love that analogy. You gave a metaphor about the glasses, because I think that applies. [00:06:00] So much in healing and especially when you can step out of blurred vision and actually see clearly, it's like, oh my God, like what was I doing or what is going on?

[00:06:17] Jalon: Like what is, it's almost like the matrix, you know that movie has so much more meaning to me right now. Cause I feel like I understand it better. But also when I got the opportunity to really. understand what healing trauma was. It has such a huge effect on me. And I was the first one in my family to go to therapy.

[00:06:41] Jalon: And to me, that is more valuable than being the first one to graduate high school or being the first one to go to college. You know, everybody has these things in their family that they're proud of. For me, it's therapy. Because it's done so much for me to be the cycle breaker. And it's funny. I was just talking to my friend the other [00:07:00] day cause my, I asked my son to put away the food when I went to bed.

[00:07:05] Jalon: And when I woke up in the morning, I showed his mom, I said, there's so much food left in there and we talked about it. And you know, the, the conclusion was. Well, you did something right because he's never been hungry, so he doesn't understand that you have to scrape that pot or that bowl to get everything because you can't waste anything.

[00:07:26] Jalon: And not that I'm, you know, saying that it's okay to waste food, but it was just, I hadn't never thought about it that way. Yeah. And, and when I think about other things that he won't have to go through or do because of the work that I've done, it makes me proud. You know, it makes me proud that like. He can say to me, Oh, your podcast is on trauma.

[00:07:49] Jalon: I got trauma. And he's joking because he doesn't really have any trauma. I mean, of course, just, you know, living in this world, we, we have traumatic experiences, but he doesn't [00:08:00] have any of the big things that that I experienced as a child. And for me, that's huge. 

[00:08:06] John: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times we don't know what's inside of us or what's unresolved until the experience of being a parent shows it to us or our children being almost like mirrors.

[00:08:19] John: They show us what's unresolved. One thing along my journey thus far as a parent is seeing my daughter have anger and then some, a part in me who finds anger unacceptable wanting to shut that down. Right. And then another part of the judge is that another part is like, Oh my God, what is wrong with you?

[00:08:39] John: Right? Your kid got angry. You got angry at your kid to try to shut it down. And then this part comes on and judges. It's like, what are you doing? You know, you can't be, you can't be getting angry too. And then trying to bring that into my own therapy work. Right. And bring it into my own IFS to say, Hey, this thing happened this week and that's a new trailhead for me.

[00:08:58] John: Right. And no [00:09:00] shortage of trailheads as a parent, or in my case, what still feels like a new parent, you know, my daughter is almost four, but it all feels new and so rapidly evolving and yet so many opportunities for me to go back to the well and try to keep doing my own work, you know? 

[00:09:17] Jalon: Yeah. I think a lot of people can understand that.

[00:09:19] Jalon: I mean, I understand it emphatically because. anger was not something I could express at all. You know, I just learned that there's healthy anger. But for me, you know, I grew up in the era where kids would be seen and not heard. So if I felt some type of way about something, it was shut down immediately because The adults had all the power and all the authority and that was it.

[00:09:43] Jalon: It didn't matter how you felt or what was right. It was, you know, I said what I said, or I'm the parent, you're the child in the discussion. 

[00:09:52] John: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think I had very similar messages in that regard around big feelings. You know, I, I [00:10:00] grew up in the South and in Virginia where things on the surface had to look.

[00:10:05] John: Good and put together and ready for Sunday church. And yet all the imperfections and the blemishes and what were happening just, just underneath the surface, right. Or kind of. Behind closed doors. And also even just as a, as a little boy, similar to you, I was labeled as sensitive or too sensitive.

[00:10:23] John: Even times as an adult, I've been called too sensitive, even in the last year that I can think of. And something around that too was fundamentally unacceptable, right? If like being a boy or now being a man with with lots of feelings or sensitivity to my own feelings has been you still feels largely unacceptable in our world.

[00:10:46] Jalon: I agree. I think just culturally men were, were supposed to suppress because, you know, we were looked at as, you know, the caveman analogy. Like you go out and you are tough and you, [00:11:00] you are the hunter and that, you know, that's it, you, you don't show any feelings or emotions. And I somehow or another, that has bled down all the way into today.

[00:11:08] Jalon: And it's such a,

[00:11:14] Jalon: I mean, we're at such a disadvantage for having to suppress our feelings. Because then that leads to all types of coping mechanisms, you know, and if we would just deal with what we were feeling or what bothered us or have the opportunity to express ourself, we wouldn't have to go drink, or we wouldn't have to do drugs, or we wouldn't have to do anything that becomes addictive, avoiding something that is, I mean, I don't know.

[00:11:45] Jalon: Even crying is the body's natural way of releasing energy. And we're told that if we cry, you know, there's so many things associated with crying that, that are so far from what it really is. But that's just culturally the way [00:12:00] things have been passed down. And I know for me. As, as a black person, a person of color as a black man, for sure.

[00:12:08] Jalon: Like when I was growing up, you weren't sensitive, you didn't cry. You didn't do any of that. And if you did, you were soft, you were punk, all the things, you know? But I, I never subscribed to it. I mean, in certain instances. I knew I couldn't cry around my friends or couldn't do this or couldn't do that.

[00:12:27] Jalon: But, you know, I, I always do those sensitive parts of myself that needed to be heard and needed a voice. Because I knew that that was a big part of my identity and I, and now, you know, I've, I've been able to turn vulnerability into a podcast and I love, I love being able to, to have these types of discussions and, and normalize you know, the things that we talk about.

[00:12:57] John: Yeah, man. And what a [00:13:00] gift to your son to give a young black man the example of his dad owning his feelings and honoring his sensitivities and having a doing it publicly, you know, is taking it to a whole new level of putting yourself out there and Kind of being a spokesperson for vulnerability, right?

[00:13:18] John: So what a gift to, to your son, to, for his dad to get to see that or for him to see that from his dad. 

[00:13:27] Jalon: I hope that at some point he'll, he'll see it that way and that yeah, you know, he can, he can carry it on into the next generation because. It's important. It's important because, you know, if we continue to suppress these things, it leads to disease and, you know, the body is a trailhead, like Dr.

[00:13:47] Jalon: Alyssa Rankin mentioned in one of her posts, and if, if we can really understand what causes, you know, us to have these different burdens and then the burdens, they lead to different things. [00:14:00] You know, we, there's so many of us that are unhealthy emotionally, and there is no separation between mental and emotional health and physical health.

[00:14:07] Jalon: But I think for so long, we were just focusing on just physical without realizing that being sick emotionally can cause those physical ailments. 

[00:14:16] John: Yeah, no doubt about that. I I actually found through a lot of my own work. I used to get sick a lot. And just like colds all the time to just kind of under the weather a little bit all the time.

[00:14:28] John: Or the slightest bit of stress would result in me being sick and out of work for like a couple of days. And I think in large part through my own work. In IFS therapy with my own IFS therapist, doing a lot of a lot of IFS work, a lot of unburdenings of my own I rarely get sick, knock on wood.

[00:14:47] John: And that's something that I think is very real. I also, I went and did this training in Sedona with Frank Anderson. I heard him talk a lot about stuff like that too, in his own life, you know, and had the physical impact of doing this [00:15:00] work also for me, having going through an unburdening is a very physical, very somatic process, right?

[00:15:05] John: Which I think you might agree. And so There's so much to that. And what's interesting from a therapist perspective is like, we both know a lot more than we used to know about this stuff, about trauma and what healing is and in the body and all this stuff. And yet it's also like, there's so much more to learn.

[00:15:22] John: There's so much that we don't know. We are just at the beginning, whether it's in terms of like what we know or don't know about trauma or the cultural stigma around asking for help. Right. Or quote being vulnerable. So yeah, there's both. We've both come a long way and also we have a long way to go 

[00:15:39] Jalon: for sure.

[00:15:40] Jalon: When I read the myth of normal by Gabor Mate, that book was so validating for me because hearing him talk about the trauma disease connection. And how, you know, [00:16:00] being in fight or flight for so long could, or just, it was so many things, my God, that book was so good. And I, I, it was like, I wanted to share it with everybody, but.

[00:16:12] Jalon: You know, some people just aren't ready for certain things if they haven't gotten to a certain point yet in their healing journey. But, you know, I'll take little snippets here and there or, you know, I'll post something on Instagram from his book or what have you. But that, that book was life changing and validating for me.

[00:16:26] Jalon: And then also the body keeps a score. Another one was, was codependent no more. I didn't realize how grossly codependent I was. It's just a lot, bro. I think it is a healing journey, and I do think that it is something that is lifelong because I don't think anybody ever gets to a point where they're completely healed.

[00:16:47] Jalon: And I, you know, there is a difference, I think, from being whole and healed. But I also think that, you know, it's a two edged sword with that as well. 

[00:16:58] John: Yeah, [00:17:00] absolutely. Well, one thing that we had talked about doing today was something that makes your podcast really unique is, like I said in your intro that you sent me, you had kind of been letting therapists in on your healing journey, and then Making content about it and using that with your podcast.

[00:17:19] John: I also know you love to write and so you had sent me some posts that you had Published a couple years back when you were kind of in this journey or starting this journey And so that was one idea of having you read one of those posts today which I I'd love to do still if you're still up for it, but Yeah, if you want to do that, great.

[00:17:39] John: Also, if you want to say more about, you know, that whole process, you're welcome to sure. 

[00:17:45] Jalon: So like I said, like I always have been okay being vulnerable. And I would travel a lot back in the day. Not that I don't anymore, but like I was traveling like twice a month. I was going to, you know, I've been to all of Central America.

[00:17:58] Jalon: I've been to, [00:18:00] you know, almost every state in the United States and I would fly on Spirit Airlines, which everybody hates, but they're hubbed in Fort Lauderdale here and we would get flights for like 30 bucks, you know, so I would go to Mexico or to Guatemala for like less than a hundred bucks round trip.

[00:18:18] Jalon: And I realized that in doing so, you know, I would, I would post pictures. And it was like, as soon as I would take one trip, I was like ready for the next one. And I, I started like questioning myself, like, man, like it feels like I'm almost addicted to travel. But I hadn't put the pieces of that together yet, but when I would, I would plan on going somewhere and, and usually like every, every year on my birthday, I would go somewhere and I would post a picture.

[00:18:46] Jalon: Like I, I wrote something in while I was in Thailand and posted that. And then it started kind of becoming like a thing for me. And then I just started posting, you know, what I felt was deeply vulnerable stuff all the [00:19:00] time. And then once I started my therapy journey, I started sharing the things that I had written with some therapists and I would get a lot of good feedback and that made me feel good.

[00:19:10] Jalon: Like, you know, there's something to this. If therapists are telling me that they enjoy reading what I wrote and then some of them had asked if they could use it in their practice to help their clients. I was like, man, like. That's pretty cool. And then you know, I, I was talking about therapy literally to everyone that was within earshot of me.

[00:19:30] Jalon: And people were starting to get sick of it. And I was like, okay, well, there's got to be a way that I can talk about this more and not have everybody say, you know, all you talk about is trauma or healing or what have you. So I was like, well, maybe I could start a podcast. So I went back to, you know, a couple of those therapists that I shared things that I had written with.

[00:19:53] Jalon: And I said, listen, like, would you be interested in like, You know, maybe 10 to 15 minutes, me interviewing you. [00:20:00] And my idea is that it's just a regular guy talking to a therapist and like, it'll give a window into what therapy can be like so that, you know, people could, if someone can look at me and say, well, if he's doing it, then it may be something I can look at, but I'm also including a therapist.

[00:20:20] Jalon: Like I felt like that was a nice mix, you know, and I got again, resounding yeses from almost everyone that asked. So I started but there was a piece that I wrote, I think it was my third session after starting IFS therapy because I had been in therapy, talk therapy for about a year and a half, and it was life changing for me.

[00:20:44] Jalon: And I had also got to a point to where, you know, my therapist had told me she felt like. I was wasting her time, which a good, I mean, a good therapist will tell you she doesn't he or she doesn't want to see you longterm because that's not the [00:21:00] goal. And I think we had reached that point. And so looking for something new, I had heard about IFS and it was so intriguing and I didn't, I didn't want just any therapist because I had already had an amazing relationship with my first therapist.

[00:21:17] Jalon: So I, I started interviewing therapists. Like I went on psychology today. And I would send an email out and let them know who I was, what work I had done already and what I was looking for. And I think I interviewed close to 20 or 30 therapists. And then I found Vanessa and she's an IFS therapist and we hit it off.

[00:21:39] Jalon: It was, She was everything that I was looking for and more, and she felt like, you know, I offered a lot as well. And after my third session with her, I just literally felt like I was flying. And I wrote this piece and if, if you don't mind, I I'd love to read it. [00:22:00] Great. 

[00:22:00] John: Let's do it. 

[00:22:01] Jalon: I haven't posted a travel picture in a good minute.

[00:22:04] Jalon: Even though I absolutely love traveling, I realized that I started to feel like it had become an unhealthy means of validation and or quite possibly an addiction. I know there are healthy forms of validation, but as I started to be able to go inside and get curious with the parts of myself that prevent me from sitting with myself, I started to notice more and more that traveling wasn't a healthy form of validation for me.

[00:22:28] Jalon: I read a quote from nature to wild that said, A vacation won't save you from doing the internal work to be well, and it felt so true. Granted, two things can coexist at once, so I recognize that although traveling fed my soul, it also kept me from sitting still and facing myself. It's always been really tough for me dealing with how I'm viewed by others, and more so being liked if I had to pinpoint it.

[00:22:52] Jalon: The combination of my childhood not having a lot of safety, mixed with a fair amount of rejection, wired my brain to protect me. [00:23:00] So exposing myself. Who I felt I really was, at least, has always been extremely difficult. I thought that if people saw the real me, no one would like what they saw. And so my inner critics refused to allow that to happen because not being liked like death internally, my awareness right now, it feels like it's through the roof.

[00:23:19] Jalon: It's like, I'm outside of myself, watching me and identifying and taking notes of all the things that need attention and that have a protective wall around them. It's getting to them. That seems so difficult because over time. All the different internal parts that develop to protect me have become so powerful.

[00:23:37] Jalon: And when activated, it seemed to have me on autopilot. I'd noticed that I have pretty significant issues with shame, guilt, and self criticism to the point that I find myself doing so many things out of fear. And I recognize it now to be what's called imposter syndrome. I think it stems from having to self erase, grin and bear it, suck it up, and do things [00:24:00] to become something I thought I had to be for approval and to survive.

[00:24:04] Jalon: I delved into all my different parts pretty deep and realized I developed people pleasing as a way of Giving to feel seen, gain approval and feel needed. That part of me is essentially as old as I can remember and feels like a wounded child. I feel it take my nervous system hostage when activated because it believes that there's a real threat.

[00:24:25] Jalon: There must've been moments in time of true authenticity and vulnerability when little me was dismissed or rejected. And those moments cause a deep wound that is now heavily guarded. There's also a part of me that's exhausted because of the people pleaser. And that part knows that it. That I don't have to continually be driven by the people pleaser.

[00:24:45] Jalon: The people pleaser is still operating on high alert because it feels there's danger, but even though there's no danger, it can't relax because of the perceived threat. Which keeps the sirens blaring. Also the, also because the people pleaser is a little [00:25:00] boy who's afraid to be rejected or abandoned, he shapeshifts to do whatever is necessary to avoid ever having to feel that initial wound, the exhausted part has constantly suppressed the people pleaser.

[00:25:11] Jalon: And because of it, drum roll, the people pleaser has never been heard. So I had to acknowledge that the people pleaser's concerns were valid and give that part a chance to have a voice. Internally, I had to kneel down and comfort him and thank him for doing his job and warning me of danger and let him know that he's heard, appreciated, and has a voice.

[00:25:32] Jalon: And during that, the exhausted part was also heard. They both just needed to be heard, and it bridged the gap between the two of them. Immediately, I felt my body relax, and I've noticed neither one is activated so intensely anymore, and it feels like they've both been able to retire. This was the first time I felt, I felt deep peace with my internal family system.

[00:25:53] Jalon: This was deep, deep inner work. When we go into a situation as our authentic self and we get [00:26:00] rejected or feel disappointment, a part develops to protect us and prevent us from ever feeling those feelings again. The wound is buried and protected at all costs. Ever say or hear someone say, there's a part of me that just doesn't feel right about this or that.

[00:26:15] Jalon: It's like the parts which make up our internal family system have been hidden in plain sight. The parts become an armor, if you will, and once you're armored up, you learn not to share, be vulnerable, or open up to avoid being hurt. You can become anxious, hypervigilant, and avoidant, hypersensitive, have extreme fear of conflict, or unable to listen to or be open to objection out of fear of losing control.

[00:26:43] Jalon: Control may feel like the only safe, the only safe place because without control, there's no power. The part that is holding on to the rejection or disappointment is pushed aside by the protective parts whose job is to prevent you from ever feeling pain or hurt again. Essentially, the part of you that felt these [00:27:00] feelings, the wounded part, becomes exiled.

[00:27:02] Jalon: So anytime we're in a moment of authentic vulnerability, we may hesitate because it doesn't feel safe. And then the protectors, or inner critics, or whatever part that was developed to protect us shows up and shuts it down. I've realized it takes practice to be jaded and guarded. It's learned behavior.

[00:27:20] Jalon: There are things we want to do that are a reflection of our core selves, but experience has taught us that it's not safe to do them being authentic and getting rejected teaches you that being your true self is not a safe space. And so we learn to adapt and align more with where safety is and become more in tune with the parts whose job it is to protect us.

[00:27:41] Jalon: I don't think we'd ever get anxious or have a nervous system response to true authentic self expression if we weren't suppressing something or responding to stimuli. from a previous experience. As a result, we learned to cope. As a result, we learned to cope, staying super busy, traveling, alcohol, becoming a [00:28:00] workaholic, drugs, perfectionism, etc.

[00:28:02] Jalon: We create ways to numb ourselves or not be present. Anything to avoid feeling our feelings or sitting in discomfort. I remember the first time I had a drink and how good it made me feel. I felt so alive. My inhibitions were lowered, my mind was quiet, no anxiety, and it felt so good just being me. I wanted that feeling literally as often as possible because it felt like a life cheat code.

[00:28:28] Jalon: Drinking was no different than traveling, a way out without having to face myself. It seems like anything that provides an escape or a means to avoid, cope, or numb can be, or can become an, or numb can be or become an addictive. an addiction, sorry, even if it's something as simple as staying busy. If we're too busy to sit and feel, we're avoiding and running from feeling, i.

[00:28:54] Jalon: e. addicted to running away from our problems or feelings. I noticed that as I start to [00:29:00] sit with myself and work through difficult things, my body would tell me when it was ready to process an unresolved incident, and it would give me access to a room that I needed to open the door to. Each room so far has provided access to a wounded little boy shaking and sitting in the corner needing to be consoled.

[00:29:18] Jalon: The wound was the event, and my work had begun allowing me access to rescue each little boy and provide the safety and comfort that the event and the wound robbed him of. My job was to allow him to heal and trust again. Each door I open, I unpack the traumatic event that caused the wound. I have to relive each event so the little boy can feel validated, understood, and trust me, which then allows us to leave the room together and close the door behind us.

[00:29:48] Jalon: I've begun to realize that the traumatic event isn't what happened to me, but what happened inside of me. and cause the protectors to stand guard to keep the exiled wounded little boys safe. I'm also learning that to [00:30:00] get to the exile, the protectors have to gain my trust too, because they're simply doing their job.

[00:30:05] Jalon: They made a promise, and they're making good on it. So recognizing that they're actually working to protect me, I can see them for who and what they are, and therein lies the trust. I just gained access to a door that has given me so much insight on who and why I am today. I could never really understand why I couldn't trust my dad.

[00:30:26] Jalon: And this door has given me all the answers before he died. My dad would call me often and tell me how proud of me he was and how much he loved me. That's literally all I ever wanted, but I couldn't accept nor process it. And I just hurry off the phone to avoid it. I wanted to believe him, but there were parts of me that wouldn't allow me to.

[00:30:46] Jalon: I understand why now. There was an incident that left me feeling so betrayed and alone, so betrayed and alone, and it sent me to a place I never recovered from. I was in Philly for the summer, as always, with my dad. [00:31:00] On this faithful day, my brother needed a ride to work because his car was having issues, so he asked my stepmom if I could drive him to work in her car, and she agreed.

[00:31:08] Jalon: So I took him to work and when I got back home, there was a note from my stepmom that said, See you next summer. I was confused by it and didn't know what it meant until about an hour later. I was watching TV and my dad literally almost broke the front door down coming in the house and yelled at me, Go pack your bags, you're leaving.

[00:31:28] Jalon: I was so startled by the way he came in the house and confused by what he was saying that I froze. As I listened to him, I realized he was serious, and it sunk in. My stepmom had told him that I wrestled the keys out of her hands and stole her car against her will. I was pleading with him to please believe me that it wasn't true and asked him why on earth would I do something like that.

[00:31:51] Jalon: But, it didn't matter. He had made up his mind, and I was in the car, bags packed, in a matter of minutes. I couldn't grasp the fact that [00:32:00] my dad wouldn't even hear me out and would believe that I would do something so out of character. That car ride felt like days. He kept trying to talk to me and explain to me how disappointed and upset he was because of what she told him I had done.

[00:32:15] Jalon: At a point I asked him to please stop talking and just leave me alone. I remember those feelings so vividly. Betrayal, rejection, abandonment. It was never discussed. I was never exonerated. I was never made to feel whole about it. Those feelings just buried and internalized. I think it got to the point to where if it wasn't spoken about, it didn't happen.

[00:32:38] Jalon: But my body knew it happened because I'm immediately triggered every time I'm in the airport in Philly. I haven't felt comfortable in my stepmom's presence ever since. And I lost trust in my dad completely. It helped me realize that just because I wasn't sexually or physically abused, not to dismiss the gravity of those forms of abuse in any way, because they are huge and what's referred to [00:33:00] as big T traumas.

[00:33:01] Jalon: That you can still suffer just as bad from little t traumas over and over. Things such as not having your needs met, being manipulated, having your feelings constantly dismissed, being rejected, made to feel unimportant, having to stay quiet or deny your lived experience to avoid making others uncomfortable and to keep the peace.

[00:33:20] Jalon: It's created a whirlwind of chaos, arousal to the point that when I'm calm or things are going well, it doesn't feel right, foreign almost, and I'm not used to it. It feels at times like my brain is sick and I'm addicted to stress and chaos. The confusion of knowing on a cellular level that my feelings are valid, but at the same time having to discredit them and play this game of, let's pretend it's all okay, has taken its toll.

[00:33:48] Jalon: It's made me continually ask myself, what am I missing? I feel this gaping hole and I try to get to it, and it just confuses me more and takes me further away. It feels like I have this puzzle in front of [00:34:00] me, and there is one piece missing, and I have no clue what or where it is, but also I know it's me.

[00:34:06] Jalon: I'm the piece that's missing, and I'm right here, but it's felt a lot of times like I'm still not attainable. I read Will Smith's book, Will, and I identify so much with the passage in the book where he said he felt like a coward after watching his dad punch his mom in the face. Unfortunately, I was able to read it.

[00:34:25] Jalon: I was able to relate and it gave me access to more doors. I remember so many nights laying in bed in the dark and listening to my stepdad yell at my mom and throw things. Every time I'd hear him yell, it would jolt my little body and I'd sink into the covers and all I could do was sit there frozen without being able to do anything to protect her.

[00:34:45] Jalon: Even though I was a kid and physically incapable of defending her, I wanted to. And because I couldn't, I felt like such a coward. I lost my voice and so much confidence in my abilities. As I was developing into a man, [00:35:00] it would make me so angry with nowhere to displace the anger, but inward not being able to protect her drove me to find ways to compensate for having to stay quiet.

[00:35:10] Jalon: For feeling like a coward and then having to pretend later like it wasn't happening in front of people. It is not my desire any longer to participate or stay quiet to keep the peace. If it's at the expense of my body or my emotional wellbeing, being told that love covers a multitude of sins or turn the other cheek.

[00:35:30] Jalon: When applied in the spirit of love, or if doing so allows for awareness and growth, I believe both can be beneficial. However, doing so to overlook abuse in any form or to keep the facade of peace doesn't appeal to me, and I feel it's being misappropriated. Normalizing unhealthy social or family dynamics combined with decades of ignoring myself, Because traditionally, it's been customary to suck it up and accept uncomfortable situations or behavior has given me the ability to dissociate emotionally at the drop of a dime.[00:36:00] 

[00:36:00] Jalon: It's like a switch I can flip on and off to become completely robotic and emotionless. It's caused me to become excessively defensive, have social anxiety, be overly sensitive, easily triggered, perpetually anxious, and aggressive in my desire to have control to prevent feeling unsafe. Not being able to rely on caregivers at a young age has made it so tough to accept help or rely on anyone besides myself for anything as an adult because I learned that I couldn't trust others to protect me or guard my heart.

[00:36:30] Jalon: Doing everything on my own or doing things my way allows me to know the outcome and have control. Which makes me feel safe and empowered. It's a lot to try and get a hold on. And at times it can be so heavy that I have to step away and allow time to process and then come back and revisit. Processing and growth has led me to the painful realization that I've lost a big part of my audience, my core inner circle I've relied on to feel supported.

[00:36:58] Jalon: I would get so offended when I [00:37:00] share something I'd written or an accomplishment, and I wouldn't get the feedback or validation I felt I deserved from my tribe. I legit took it personal and would be way been out of shape. So I had to have my thinking challenge on how I felt about it. I was told you haven't lost anyone.

[00:37:16] Jalon: You're a different person in the version of you that allows you to feel a certain way you've long outgrown. Immediately. I felt dread come over me. I've outgrown my people. So now that they think I feel I'm better than them or too good for them. It was another huge hurdle I had to get over because I didn't know how to accept that I didn't fit in anymore.

[00:37:36] Jalon: Or at least that's how I felt. I think sitting with it allowed me to have more clarity. And it wasn't so much that I had lost my audience or my inner circle as it was, I was growing and growth means change. And I'd gain a new audience because I had begun to speak a new language, the language of recovery.

[00:37:56] Jalon: This new language has enabled me to see things that make so much damn [00:38:00] sense. But that I could have never seen or been able to comprehend before, for instance, I can now see and understand that there are parts of me that when activated take over and I see that they aren't responding to what's actually happening and happening in that specific moment, but are reacting to a feeling that's associated with previous wounds.

[00:38:20] Jalon: And that moment I am limited emotionally and intellectually to and be the exact age that I was when the initial response was created. So when you hear someone say you're acting like a kid. There may be more truth to that statement than meets the eye. It's the feeling that activates the body and the stress response summons the cavalry of protective parts and mechanisms.

[00:38:44] Jalon: Growth is hard work. It's brutal to me at times. It feels like I have to die a thousand small deaths to reach new heights. I just can't do the toxic pox, toxic positivity anymore. And I also can't accept less for myself to keep others happy because they aren't willing to [00:39:00] be uncomfortable. I was raised as the emotional scapegoat in my family because I had big feelings and it made me the difficult one.

[00:39:10] Jalon: Very early I realized that my mom and my brother were armored up, and because I wasn't, And I was open. It felt like it was me against them. I was scolded for being needy emotionally and learned to internalize because I see now that my emotional presence was a reminder of unmet emotional needs and wants for them and my family dynamic.

[00:39:29] Jalon: It felt like I never mattered aside from the cardboard cut out of the role I was supposed to play, which is why, at a very young age, I learned to self erase and people please. But, I decided I'm not needy or problematic. I'm a human, and the body which serves as my home will be where I reside and feel safe.

[00:39:48] Jalon: And I'm going to continue to trust and heal my home because it's where and how I do my human experience.[00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] John: I have to ask the obvious therapist question, which is, what was it like for you to read that? 

[00:40:07] Jalon: It was, I won't say it was difficult, but it was like, wow. Because I look back at where I was at that point and I'm like, okay, I, I had gained a lot of knowledge. And I was processing it in a healthy way and I was setting emotional and energetic boundaries and I was no longer willing to allow myself to be the scapegoat.

[00:40:33] Jalon: So I think what I felt most is I was proud. I was proud for sure. 

[00:40:39] John: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:40:45] John: I have only like 25 notes here that I've written down. If I, if I was your therapist, things I'd want to ask more about or trailheads, you know, to use an IFS term. I, I'm curious I guess what else [00:41:00] stands out to you or what parts did of, of this writing did you find yourself reacting to, whether it's positively or even moments where you So I found a trailhead of your own if like maybe there's more work to do here on this thing.

[00:41:14] Jalon: Well, for sure. I know I got to go back and reread it later because I was trying to focus on reading it without you know, making any mistakes or what have you. But the people pleaser. Yeah, I think that was maybe the biggest part in my system at the time because it was completely in control. And yeah, I would do anything to make sure everyone else was happy at all costs and letting go of that.

[00:41:46] Jalon: And realizing that I didn't have to anymore. It was huge because it, like, I still recognize it now when I'm in, you know, certain social settings or when someone may ask me something that I don't [00:42:00] necessarily want to do, but, you know, being on the mindset that you always do for others, no matter what. Now I don't have to do those things anymore and I can do it without feeling bad too.

[00:42:12] Jalon: It was life changing. 

[00:42:15] John: Huge. As you said in the, in the writing protectors take on roles that were very important at that time. And then oftentimes years or even decades later, those parts of us are still polarized and stuck in those roles. People pleasing being a really common one and a really common one.

[00:42:35] John: When when we have any sort of trauma background, especially childhood trauma. And as you mentioned anything between, you know, big T traumas and little T traumas and yeah, and everything, everything in between moments of your life that are that were themselves polarizing and emotionally charged in moments that are so vivid to you, [00:43:00] you know, all these years later into your adulthood like the experience well, the two experiences, one with the car keys being blamed for something you didn't do and the desperation of trying to defend yourself to your dad, right.

[00:43:16] John: And trying to explain that you didn't take the keys. Right. And just being up against a, a, a wall of not being believed and having no, no credibility and that long car ride of that, that you went through. 

[00:43:31] Jalon: I remember that car ride so vividly because such a huge part of me died, right? Because I had already had a lot of trauma in my family system because my parents were divorced when I was three, but I love my dad, dude.

[00:43:50] Jalon: Like it didn't matter what happened or what he did. He was my guy and we had such a close knit relationship [00:44:00] and I was able to say anything to him. I was able to express myself without fear. And as I grew up and as I was getting older, I realized that who I was to him was still a little boy. You know, I was, I was still three or four in his eyes.

[00:44:21] Jalon: which I understand now having a child. But also in those moments where I needed him to be my father for a teenager or an adolescent or even, you know, a young man, he didn't know how. And I think what, where he found safety was in his relationship with his new wife. And so if she said, get him out of here and she knew, you know, she, she manipulated him.

[00:44:48] Jalon: But also I didn't have that understanding at the time. And I just remember being in the car and riding to the airport and just feeling like literally worthless [00:45:00] because How could you not believe me and why would I do that? And then also the disappointment like you're disappointed in me for something.

[00:45:08] Jalon: I didn't do it was it was soul crushing It really was and even now like, you know Every time I fly home to Philly, I'm in the airport Like I walk past certain terminals and I'll see and I just you know It's I get that emotional charge and I just kind of like, you know, try and avoid sitting with that in that moment I mean I'm able to now but yeah Initially, every time I would walk past a certain spot, I would see it and just like, my nervous system would get activated.

[00:45:34] Jalon: And I would just try and, you know, avoid thinking about it or feeling that feeling. 

[00:45:38] John: That's right. Yeah. Well, not to mention your time with your dad was Limited and more precious than ever because you weren't with him all the time, right? And living in different places. So to have that trip cut short and that visit that time with your dad cut short and in such a disruptive way is, is [00:46:00] even more painful and to be misunderstood.

[00:46:02] John: Something about being misunderstood or misrepresented is so, so painful. Right. There's something about that is just so deeply wounding for us. Right. And especially when we're younger, when so much of the world is like other people telling you what to do or how to behave or who to be or whatever. And then you have this piece around this injustice that's happening to you and nothing you're saying is making it better.

[00:46:27] John: Nothing you're saying is getting your dad to believe you, 

[00:46:29] Jalon: right? Yeah, that it really was an injustice. And then it was never talked about. You know, when I wrote this, And posted it. I had so many people reach out to me, close friends, and go, Oh my God, I didn't know that happened, bro. Like, I'm so sorry.

[00:46:44] Jalon: And it was, it was so healing. It really was. Because I was able to, to, to open that door, where that little boy was, who was wounded. Yeah, rescue him, take him out and then close the door behind us. And I felt so validated because [00:47:00] there was a fear associated with even talking about it, because if I exposed her, then there was also consequences for that, but there weren't really, you know, there was, there was these consequences that were perceived because you don't talk about things that happen in the family system, right?

[00:47:17] Jalon: Things that happen behind closed doors, stay behind closed doors. So there was also a fear of telling the truth, of being honest. Which is sad, which is so sad. Well, 

[00:47:28] John: yeah, you had parts that were exiled then, and you were the literal exile in that moment, right? In that situation, right? Where yeah, actually blaming your stepmom would have further exiled you.

[00:47:44] Jalon: Right, because then it would have caused her to go to my father and, you know, do more to stay in the victim role. 

[00:47:54] John: So I've just got to swallow the pain and go home, right? Right, 

[00:47:58] Jalon: right, exactly. And [00:48:00] then come back next summer and pretend like it didn't happen. 

[00:48:03] John: And the pretending like it didn't happen is again where more wounding occurs, right?

[00:48:08] John: It's more of the silent wounding, right? Of just swallowing it and just, just grin and bear it. Right. It's so invalidating. So invalidating. So, so like so much of what can be healing is how old were you during that incident? 

[00:48:29] Jalon: I think I was about 17. 

[00:48:31] John: 17. Yeah. So much of what can be healing is just telling a young person that You matter that your voice matters, even if we disagree, right?

[00:48:41] John: Even if we can't get to the bottom of what happened with the keys, just letting you know, or letting that 17 year old know that you matter. I hear you. Your story matters. Can be. Yeah. So, so tremendous or even for, for, for little kids, right. And just giving them a voice and having their voice be heard.

[00:48:58] John: It's just it's just so powerful. [00:49:00] 

[00:49:01] Jalon: I agree. Yeah, 

[00:49:04] John: this other piece, I mean, again, I'm a a trauma therapist. So my radar goes off for the traumas. Right. And if I'm, if this was like our intake session, I'm taking notes of like, here's where we might go with the work, right. Or from a parts perspective, like here's where we might go.

[00:49:21] John: This other memory obviously around your, your mom and your stepdad and being young and hearing them fight, hearing your stepdad yelling at your mom and not being able to do anything about it. I literally just an hour ago was with a client who had almost an identical story of being young. One, one parent was, was yelling at the other, it was threatening.

[00:49:44] John: They could hear it. And this, they had a, a young part that took on this This burden of responsibility, if I should have done something, I should have stopped it even though she was four, right? Or six or whatever it was. So there's, there's something around like our [00:50:00] duty to protect or defend a parent and also a core piece of trauma is around agency, like something is happening and I can do something about it to make it right, whether it's with the keys thing or with, yeah, your mom and stepdad and having agency, being able to do something about.

[00:50:19] John: The wrongdoing that's happening. 

[00:50:22] Jalon: Yeah. I think with that, as I got older, and developed into my manhood and maturity and got bigger, of course. I got to a point where I started speaking up. Yeah. And then I became the threat. And I remember it got to a point to where anything that could be done to discredit me or invalidate me would be used against me.

[00:50:52] Jalon: And I mean, little things like I had got not a brand new car, but a new car, it was new wish. And [00:51:00] his response to that was, you know, He has the newest car in the house and that was a problem, you know? And then when I started dating, I had my first girlfriend. It was, well, you never came to me and asked me if you could date or what I thought about it.

[00:51:14] Jalon: And I remember one night I came home and he was talking about me to my mom in a very negative way, and I stopped at the door and just stood there. And because he was caught, he had nothing else to do in that moment, but to be tough. And he said, yeah, I was talking about you. And that was the night I left home because we got into a physical altercation.

[00:51:35] Jalon: Because I, I was done, I was done with the abuse and with the nonsense and with you talking about my mom and now you're talking about me. So I'm a man, you're a man, what's up? It's basically where we were at, you know, and he told me that night to leave the house and I did. And I was 17. And then it took me an additional two years to get my mom to leave because she was just frozen in the [00:52:00] abuse and she didn't know what to do or how to do.

[00:52:01] Jalon: I don't think she ever saw herself free from it. And I would call her every day and say, mom, you gotta leave. Mom, you got to leave. Mom, you got to leave. And eventually she did. So I think I was the catalyst in that and I'm glad that I was able to get her out of it. 

[00:52:17] John: Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious just to ask this question again.

[00:52:23] John: As we kind of poke around this, this material a little bit more, do you notice any parts of you activated? 

[00:52:32] Jalon: I think that I've, I've revisited this a good amount of times in therapy and maybe even, even deeper wounds that my protectors were working to keep safe. So I, I, I don't get as activated.

[00:52:48] Jalon: I, it, it does. It's making me a little angry, but I know that it's, it's righteous anger. It's, it's not so much that I'm, I'm activated to the point to where, you know, I feel the need to do something. I just, [00:53:00] I kind of, you know, shake my head and say, you did a good job and you're continually doing a good job.

[00:53:07] Jalon: and making sure that you heal it in a healthy way and not accept this type of behavior from anybody else anymore.

[00:53:17] John: Ultimately, a lot of what we're doing in IFS is kind of like reparenting, right? Reparenting our inner children and parts that are stuck and frozen and didn't have a voice. Can have a voice now, right? And we can validate what they went through and the pain that they're still holding or have been holding this whole time, where we can validate the anger of this wasn't right, this is unjust and we can see that now and I can, I can be there with you, but I can hold you.

[00:53:47] John: Yeah, it's, it's, I think there's always that possibility of going back. 

[00:53:53] Jalon: I agree a lot with what you're saying. And I think. Reparenting that inner child is [00:54:00] hard because for me, I didn't want to have to be the one to go back and do it. I wanted to have it from the people who should have been able to give it to me.

[00:54:10] John: Absolutely. And 

[00:54:11] Jalon: I, I think there's a big part of me that feels cheated, but also in the process of reparenting, I'm not only doing it for me, but I'm also doing it for my son. So now it's twofold on the other side, which. Which can and does at times make me feel validated because I never knew that I was going to be the one that would have to do the things that I didn't get from the people who should have given it to me, but in being able to give it to myself, I'm also able to give it to him.

[00:54:44] Jalon: So I'm seeing myself as the parent that I needed and also giving what I need to myself as that as that parent. 

[00:54:53] John: You nailed it. There's so often that we have like the hurt that happened and the people that. [00:55:00] Cause the hurt and. we might wait our whole lives for them to make it better. And a lot of times they don't, right?

[00:55:09] John: And we might be waiting for that apology or whatever. And so you know, years ago before I knew IFS, we learned about this thing called the empty chair technique, really common therapy, gestalt technique of what happens when let's say that you have unresolved stuff, unfinished business with someone who's no longer living, you would bring in this empty chair or maybe if they are living, but a repair is not possible.

[00:55:34] John: You bring this empty chair and you kind of have the person. Imagine the person is sitting there and you work out your business with them. Right? This was really powerful. I used to do this quite a bit with people. Because I also saw that their own anger, resentment, bitterness was hurting no one but them.

[00:55:50] John: Right? And the person in the empty chair was either not living or had moved on or didn't give a crap about them in the first place. Right? So it's like parts of them that were [00:56:00] waiting for repair. We're going to be waiting for forever. Right. And then again, like with IFS being almost like an extension of that is we can go toward parts of us that that need healing and need witnessing and just hearing their stories and validating the injustice of it.

[00:56:15] John: This wasn't right. Right. So, you know, it, it wasn't right that you were accused about taking the keys when you did it. I hear that you did it. You didn't take the keys. This wasn't right. You know, and kind of doing that moment over again with your parts is is profound and where the healing happens.

[00:56:31] John: Right. And then going, going back into our relationships where those ripples happened and being able to be with my parts and even to love and have curiosity for the parts of others and the people that that are, that are in my life, right. Or that have hurt me before. 

[00:56:51] Jalon: Yeah. I had never heard about the empty chair, I think, but that man, that's gotta be some deep work because it allows you [00:57:00] to unburden.

[00:57:03] Jalon: Without the person necessarily being involved and that resolution, I feel like would give you, I don't know. I don't know if it would be everything in the moment, but it would be enough. To get you going and get you past what maybe has you stuck. That's right. As you continue to build off of that. Yeah. I'm gonna have to try that.

[00:57:29] John: Yeah, definitely. When we are waiting for, let's say, an apology, again, we might be waiting forever. Also, we're kind of putting our healing in the hands of others. I need someone to do this thing so I can feel better to move on versus like, what if I actually have everything inside of me and this innate healing capacity, this well of healing energy, self, self energy that I can tap into and bring that to the parts that are hurting and parts that are [00:58:00] protecting the hurt parts.

[00:58:01] John: To me, that was the biggest, again, paradigm shift as IFS talks about compared to the, the literally thousands of other models of psychotherapy that are out there and are being practiced right now. So the, the fact that we have all that within us ready to be tapped into is just is really good news for therapists who are scrambling to help a client heal in the face of dysfunctional environments, families, you know whatever it might be.

[00:58:30] John: And yet we, we can heal like right here and now. 

[00:58:34] Jalon: Yeah, I agree. Sorry about the background noise. The long guys are out here. But no, yeah, I think for me, IFS is the most powerful modality. You know, and everybody's entitled to their opinion, but for me, it's the most powerful. And I have been able to get to and access.

[00:58:57] Jalon: A depth within my system [00:59:00] that I don't think would have been possible anywhere else. And, you know, to have a conversation with a part of myself and that part be able to actually tell me what it's suffering from or, you know when it was born, so to speak, or what it's trying to protect me from, or like, in a moment where I'm activated, I can say, okay, you know, I understand, I understand that you think right now, we're in danger, but if you would just step aside for a moment and let me try and do this on my own, if I can't, I'm sorry.

[00:59:37] Jalon: By all means take over, but just give me an opportunity and I can actually feel that happening in the moment and it is like I said is it's beyond power and there was no other type of therapy or Healing modality that I've been able to do this transformative work in and [01:00:00] you know to start off reading or learning about IFS And then I just recently interviewed Dr.

[01:00:09] Jalon: Richard Swartz on my podcast that was like full circle for me and for him to, to be supportive of what I'm doing and to be willing, you know, to interview or to, to be a guest on my show. It was, it said a lot to me about my journey and, and what IFS has done for me and you know, being seen and heard.

[01:00:31] Jalon: So thank you By the founder of the modality, 

[01:00:36] John: man, what, what a gift you are to the IFS community and to to your audience and to folks that are tuning in. , I just, I can't thank you enough for, for doing this. And if you're ever up for it, you know, you got an open invitation to come on my show again and do this again or something like this or whatever.

[01:00:55] John: Cause. It's just so unique. And even just bringing these [01:01:00] writings it's so vivid. It's just so, so rich. And again, for the therapists and the non therapists listening, I'm sure they're connecting with different parts of your story that resonate with them and their parts. I just can't thank you enough for, for doing this.

[01:01:12] John: That being said, and we've already run a little long today, but what else do you want people to know about like your show, where they can find your show and tune in and anything else you want to kind of plug here before we wrap up? 

[01:01:26] Jalon: Well, I think what I want to convey most is relatability because.

[01:01:34] Jalon: I'll never look at myself or feel that I'm someone special in the sense that what I'm doing anyone can do. And

[01:01:48] Jalon: if anyone is struggling or, you know, not able to comprehend or understand that healing is something that's within their grasp or within their reach, [01:02:00] I want to be someone that they can look at and say, well, he's not a therapist. He's not famous. He's no one that you know, would be looked at as someone that wouldn't be able to relate to.

[01:02:17] Jalon: And, and for me, that's, that's pretty big because like I said, you know, I started off just by posting vulnerable things and it's gotten me to a point to where I'm able to share, I think I'm almost at a hundred episodes, you know, I've sat with almost a hundred therapists and. I have covered almost every topic.

[01:02:37] Jalon: So if someone can't afford therapy or is nervous to start, I want to be a trailhead to their healing journey to where they can go to my podcast and look up, you know, almost anything that they could be struggling from and see. And everyday guy talking [01:03:00] to a licensed professional about things that are big and things that could change their life.

[01:03:08] John: Excellent. We'll of course add a links to your show and whatnot in the description here. So people can, can find you and tune in and find what they're looking for within your show. And yeah, congrats on almost a hundred episodes. That's incredible. I know how much work that is as a podcaster. And so Thank you again for, for doing that and bringing that to, to the world.

[01:03:31] John: I think as a therapist on this side, I can say like, we can often be kind of in insolent insular, I don't know what the word is to like the rest of the world and a lot of like peeling back the curtain a little bit as to like, what is therapy, what are we doing? What tricks do we have up our sleeve?

[01:03:45] John: What are all these different modalities? I re I am realizing, you know, that again, we have so far to go. With bridging that gap. I think your show and your your message really helps bridge that gap and bringing therapy to two [01:04:00] people. And lifting the veil a bit, I think is really important. So thank you for your work there.

[01:04:05] John: And I can't thank you enough. Thank you again for doing this. And I love to have you on any time. That you want to come back. 

[01:04:13] Jalon: Thanks, John. It's been a pleasure and an honor. Like I said, I don't know that I'll ever get used to therapists wanting to talk to me or interview me or reaching out to me because of my show.

[01:04:24] Jalon: So I appreciate the invite and I'm glad, I'm glad and happy that I was able to be here. 

[01:04:30] John: You got it. You're the man. Thank you again. And we'll, we'll chat soon. 

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