IFS and Entrepreneurship with Sara Avant Stover
IFS and Entrepreneurship with Sara Avant Stover
In this episode of Going Inside, I sit down with Sara Avant Stover, a women’s leadership coach and author who blends Internal Family Systems (IFS) with entrepreneurship. We dive deep into how IFS can help entrepreneurs find balance between work and life, explore the motivations behind our drive to be productive, and discuss how tapping into our inner resources can enhance our work and overall well-being.
Key Takeaways:
IFS as a Tool for Slowing Down:
IFS helps us tap into our inner resources, slowing down workaholic tendencies and fostering curiosity about the parts of us driving over productivity.
Balancing Business with Self-Care:
Sara shares her experience of taking a month-long sabbatical each year to recharge, explaining how stepping away from work brings fresh clarity and helps create a more sustainable, simplified approach to business.
Listening to Our Higher Self:
IFS encourages us to hold "inner family meetings," where we bring our parts to the table and tap into our innate confidence and clarity as leaders, finding new ways to approach entrepreneurship.
Learn more about Sara Avant Stover at https://saraavantstover.com/
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Interview Transcript:
[00:00:00] Sara: This confidence, this courage, this clarity that we all want in need as leaders is this compassion. It's already it's innate within us. It's already here. We don't need to seek it. Extrinsically. We don't need to take a course to learn how to be confident. It's already who we are.
[00:00:24] John: Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me, trauma therapist John Clarke, for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, Going Inside is your companion on the path to healing and self discovery.
[00:00:49] John: Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one on one at johnclarketherapy.com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Sarah Avant Stover is the author of [00:01:00] three books, Teacher and Mentor of Women's Spirituality, Empowerment and Entrepreneurship, and a Certified Internal Family Systems Practitioner.
[00:01:08] John: She lives in Boulder, Colorado and is online at sarahavantstover. com. Stover. com. Sarah, thanks for being here for doing this. What else should people know about you in terms of who you are and how you got here?
[00:01:23] Sara: Thanks for having me. And that feels like a big, big question. It's always hard to find myself through a professional bio, but I think I would add to that, that everything that I teach and that I share stems out of my own life experiences.
[00:01:42] Sara: And I really kind of chronicle my own journey of becoming, of evolving through my books and then through my teachings. And I, you know, I learned things and then I turn around and I share them to hopefully make other women's journeys. [00:02:00] even just a little bit easier, but hopefully a lot easier when I can.
[00:02:04] John: Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about who you work with specifically and how you help them.
[00:02:11] Sara: I work with women entrepreneurs, so business owners, coaches, consultants, therapists, creatives, service providers, and particularly women entrepreneurs who have more of a spiritual orientation. And are coming from a heart centered approach and are wanting to bring their work into the world or bring it forward in a bigger way as an expression of their deepest self.
[00:02:42] Sara: I mean, I have asked that self with a capital S and so they've, the women that I've worked with have been around the block. You could say in terms of spirituality and personal development. And many are therapists. Many are, you know, have, have [00:03:00] really experienced a lot and studied a lot and are still struggling with some, some deeper issues, which I think we'll probably be talking more about as we go.
[00:03:10] John: Yeah, that would be great. Before we get into that and how. Specifically, you apply IFS to your work with your clients. How did you come to IFS and what was your experience in yeah. Learning the model coming to it and using it in your work.
[00:03:28] Sara: I, I was first introduced to parts work in my twenties through the work of Helen Cedric stone and voice dialogue.
[00:03:37] Sara: And that was really instrumental for me in starting to build more of a relationship. With my inner critic and I, around that time, I started working with a mentor who I continue to mentor with. So that was 20 years ago and so we've worked together for a couple of decades and she started training in IFF.
[00:03:58] Sara: She had done all three [00:04:00] levels of IFF. And 10 years ago in one of our sessions, you started leading me through what I now understand to be the IFS model, the IFS process. And it was so powerful for me. So even though I'd done a lot of therapy, again, I'd done voice dialogue, been involved in spirituality for a couple of decades at that point, this was different.
[00:04:25] Sara: And she took me to one of my exiled parts and gave me a practice of checking in with her for a month. And I really felt deeply shifted as a result of that. And shortly after that, I experienced a big life upheaval. Long story short, the man that I was engaged to told me he'd been feeding on me for the majority of our several year relationship.
[00:04:51] Sara: And in the aftermath of that, this mentor of mine really urged me, she said, Dar, you really need to be doing IFS more intensively right now. So I could really just [00:05:00] understand the parts of me that even led me to be in that relationship in the first place. And just to deal with all the trauma that came up as a result of that depth of betrayal.
[00:05:12] Sara: So I started working with an IFS therapist weekly, and that led me into deeper and deeper regions of myself where I did very intensive and extensive healing. And at the end of that, I just felt a level of wholeness. That I had never had access to before. And I just felt like I want, I want to train in this.
[00:05:36] Sara: I want to be able to share this with other people.
[00:05:38] John: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And given that. What you do now is help women with their businesses. Well through helping them how did IFS or how has IFS helped you with your own business?
[00:05:53] Sara: It has helped me immensely and it continues to every day. I say that entrepreneurship [00:06:00] is like the Olympics of personal development.
[00:06:03] Sara: It brings our stuff up in such a big way. And there's so many internal challenges that come up and there's so many external challenges. And those two things makes it kind of like a high intensity sport a lot of times. And so for me, it really helped me to identify when I'm being parts led and when I'm being self led.
[00:06:29] Sara: So when, when I have kind of taskmaster parts or pushing parts. Leading the way when there are parts that are afraid, like younger parts of me that are afraid of, you know, feeling fear around money or feeling fear around being judged or not liked. And it gives me the tools to see those as trail heads and to get curious about those parts and then start to relate to them in more of a self led way.
[00:06:57] Sara: So I have a much deeper awareness of [00:07:00] leading from myself, leading from my wholeness. rather than from my parts or from my wounds. And that's significant for me.
[00:07:12] John: It's interesting because I've been, you know, self employed essentially my whole career and also worked with a lot of self employed people. I also have a separate business called private practice workshop where I've been helping therapists through business coaching for years now.
[00:07:27] John: And what I find is that going back to kind of being driven by the wound or Parts that are wounded is a really compelling energy source for a lot of entrepreneurs. A lot of the most quote unquote successful people I know by material measures are also often the most deeply wounded or have parts that have tremendous, not good enough burdens or burdens of worthlessness.
[00:07:57] John: Right. And there's even some fear then [00:08:00] around if we work with those parts. And better yet unburden them that I won't be, I won't have my edge anymore. Do you see this type of thing come up in your work? And if so, how do you, you know, help people with that sort of thing?
[00:08:13] Sara: I do. And like, one of the things that I see a lot with women is kind of like a, Variation of that is this, especially women who are in midlife, where maybe they they've had some success.
[00:08:27] Sara: They've had some experience in the past, but they burned out from those protective parts of workaholic parts that have pushed them. And I, and I've had that experience too. And then they've seen like, I can't, I can't. Live like this anymore. I can't operate like this anymore, especially for women in life when you're going through a perimenopause and menopause, like it's just physically not possible to to work at that level.
[00:08:51] Sara: And so in those cases that there's a real desire to discover a new way to find that sort of energy source. [00:09:00] Deeper within from more of the soul, from more of the self rather than from those protective patterns. So I would say for the women that I work with, there's not that fear of losing that competitive edge.
[00:09:12] Sara: There's more of this desire to, or this curiosity, like I know something else is possible, but I'm not sure how to do that, or I'm not sure if that's, I'm not sure if I'm even capable of that. And so in that case, I think it really helps to have role models. And I'm grateful to have a few role models in this realm of more spiritual entrepreneurship who have demonstrated to me, it is possible to have a big impact, to make good money, to live a good life that's aligned with your values.
[00:09:50] Sara: By not getting swallowed up in workaholism and hustle culture, but by really doing it from your deeper self. I think it does help [00:10:00] to just look out and see who's doing this. And then that shows our part, like it really is possible. And then we just start to put one foot in front of the other to operate from more of this self led place and then just let our own experience become our teacher too.
[00:10:18] John: Yeah, yeah, that, that's great. When you think about. The number of decisions that a business owner has to make, it's incredible whether it's should I take on this client or how much should I charge or should I open this new business that I've, you know, an idea I've had for forever. How do you help people make those decisions from a place that is as self led as possible?
[00:10:48] Sara: I am a really big advocate of. Meditation. And for me, that's like sitting quietly and being in presence, [00:11:00] observing my breath. But for other people, it can look other ways. It can be journaling. It can be just having some quiet time in nature or with your cup of coffee or tea. But the key is stillness and quiet and not letting in the stimuli from the world.
[00:11:22] Sara: Because in those spaces, we can tune into that still small voice inside, which in IFS we call ourself and that's where our guidance comes from. So whenever I have decisions I need to make, I don't make them at like the end of the day. If someone has a question for me, that is more than just an easy answer.
[00:11:46] Sara: I just say, I'm going to sleep on it and I'll get back to you tomorrow.
[00:11:50] John: Yeah.
[00:11:50] Sara: Or if I need longer than that, if it's a bigger decision, I'll, I'll take that, but definitely I'm going to sleep on it so that I, I can kind of like put that into my subconscious [00:12:00] mind as I sleep. And when I wake up and I'm doing my meditation or maybe I need to go deeper and do some journaling about it and ask, like, what would you have me do?
[00:12:09] Sara: And then imagine that the universe or God or the big self is. writing back to me, and then I get the guidance on, on how to move forward. And that's just like how we, that's one of the ways that we can build a self led business, just step by step by step, or decision by decision by decision is just taking the space and the time to go inside and see, see what's true, see what's here.
[00:12:37] John: You've mentioned spirituality and I know it's an important part of what you do and who you are. And can you just, Say more about that in terms of how you integrate spirituality into your work and especially as it relates to helping entrepreneurs
[00:12:54] Sara: for me spirituality is like the basis of everything and it has been [00:13:00] for my whole adult life and within entrepreneurship, it's Really based on this concept from Greek philosophy that Carl Jung also spoke about a lot, and more of a modern day teacher John Demartini speaks about a lot, is this concept of talos.
[00:13:19] Sara: Which translates as your ultimate aim and within each of us, within our hearts, or when I fast, you can say within our, our self lives as tailos. And it's like, it's like within an oak tree, but rather within an acorn and there's the pattern of an oak tree. So within each of us, within our own hearts, there's the pattern of our highest unfolding.
[00:13:47] Sara: And I believe it is our spiritual aim, our spiritual mission. Here on this planet, you fulfill that payload. And I see entrepreneurship as one of the most potent [00:14:00] ways to do that. Because building a business is like creating the structure through which that payload, that which we are born to do can flow out into the world.
[00:14:12] Sara: That our deepest gifts can be of service to other people. And I feel like that is one of the highest spiritual. Practices that we can enact on.
[00:14:26] John: Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. How do you help entrepreneurs start to, to get clear on as who they are and what they want? In my experience, a lot of being a business owner is going back to my vision, right?
[00:14:44] John: Which is like, where is all of this heading? Why do why does my business exist? And what do I hope for the future to look like? Yeah. How do you help business owners with that? With that part of things
[00:14:58] Sara: or I, I do [00:15:00] a similar thing in terms of vision and I'm thinking about I have a year long program.
[00:15:04] Sara: It's a mentorship and mastermind circle. That's rooted in IFS, it's called Sorcerer's CEO. And the first masterclass that we do in that year is on setting your soul centered foundation. And really clarifying your vision. And I love the teaching from Stephen Covey in his seven habits of highly effective people, really advocating to begin with the end in mind.
[00:15:30] Sara: So I really advise women to take time, have some space around it, maybe do it on a day off, or if you have, you know, some extra space in the morning, or even when you're on vacation out in nature is to really just feel into what do I want my life to be, how do I want to, how do I want to live my days? Who do I want to spend my time with?
[00:15:55] Sara: How do I want to spend my time? And that [00:16:00] can start to give us a sense of kind of how to reverse engineer things from there. But to get really clear on where you're going, it's like if you're designing your dream house. You want to first get a sense of like, well, what is my dream house? Like how many rooms does it have?
[00:16:16] Sara: Where, where is it? What kind of architectural style does it have? And only from there can you start to craft the blueprint. And only from the blueprint can you actually start to build a house. So when we begin with the end in mind, then we know that the light, there's a much better chance that the life we're constructing is going to actually in the business we're building are actually going to be things that we like once we're inside of them.
[00:16:44] John: Yeah. That's really well said. What about well, did you ever read this book the upper the big leap?
[00:16:49] Sara: Yes.
[00:16:50] John: Yeah. So this guy, Gay Hendricks came up with what he calls upper limit challenges, which are kind of like reasons why we, you could say [00:17:00] parts sabotage, or when we get close to reaching certain levels of success or breaking through glass ceilings of our own, why sometimes we, um, yeah, we have parts that, that sabotage or feel unworthy.
[00:17:13] John: Well, I'm curious your thoughts around those. Those types of issues around like deserving quote unquote, or entrepreneurs that are quite capable of more of success or having a bigger impact, but there are parts that hold fears around being seen, or am I worth it or imposter syndrome or what, you know, why me do I deserve success?
[00:17:36] John: Whatever it might look like. Yeah. Any thoughts on that?
[00:17:41] Sara: One practice that I advocate is to hold an inner family meeting. When you're doing visioning. And so this, like, say that you have a plan, say that you want to, a lot of women that I work with want to create a group program of some sort, whether it's an online course or group coaching program.
[00:17:59] Sara: And [00:18:00] so it's like actually going inside and doing a meditation with our parts. And envisioning ourselves, you know, whether like our parts are sitting in a circle on the floor around in nature or around a conference table of some sort and envisioning our visioning ourselves as the leader and just telling our parts like, this is the vision.
[00:18:20] Sara: This is this is what we like to do. And here's why. And then opening up space. Okay, so does anyone have any objections to this? Anyone have any fears about this? And taking the space to really hear, hear those out. And then you might need to spend some more time with some of the ones who hold more fears and objections.
[00:18:43] Sara: But then we're operating and we're moving forward from a place of more wholeness and not overriding our parts or bulldozing them, but really making sure that everyone's on board and gradually over time can start to move in the same direction. So [00:19:00] this approach requires moving more slowly. However, you know, one of the, one of the core sayings and IFS is that slow is fast and we'll actually get to where we want to go more quickly if we're willing to slow down at these points where our protectors can kind of dig in their heels.
[00:19:18] John: Yeah, great. What else do you want us to know?
[00:19:26] Sara: One of the biggest things that the women that I work with struggle with, and I think is a big one for entrepreneurs is the fear of being seen and of being more visible. Which is a necessary part of putting ourselves out there. And I just really want to validate that we all have that fear. And I don't, maybe you can tell me because you work with men.
[00:19:57] Sara: I don't work with men. I know it's, it's very [00:20:00] big one for women.
[00:20:01] John: Yeah.
[00:20:02] Sara: And to recognize like that, that's, those are parts of us. That's not who we are, but that who we are. One of the qualities of self energy is confidence. Encourage. And so when we're not feeling that, just to recognize, Oh, that's a part of me.
[00:20:23] Sara: And if it's a part of me, I can build a relationship with it and I can support it.
[00:20:31] John: Do you notice that with
[00:20:31] Sara: men?
[00:20:32] John: Yeah, well let me say that this is a big one and I'm glad that we stumbled upon it because this fear of being seen is prevalent. It's insidious. I think about it a lot because also, let me say this. I see it less among men and I think there's a lot of differences in the way that We're stereotypically gendered and for whatever reason, men or little boys often [00:21:00] come out of childhood with some sense of like, I can be exactly what I want or whoever I want or as great as I want.
[00:21:08] John: I can be an expert and people regard me as such. So I'm aware of these and that for many women there are layers of suppression on that and doubt and fears and also even oppression that happens not only from men, but also amongst women. So I'm very interested in these dynamics. I don't, I can speak from my own experience and say, I don't know why I've always felt comfortable like turning on a camera and a microphone and speaking confidently about things.
[00:21:39] John: Again, I can guess that a lot of it has to do with my upbringing and being a boy, right? Being a man, being raised the way I was or cultured the way I was, gendered the way I was. And on the other hand, As a parallel, you know my wife, who is a coach and an entrepreneur, she's kind of like a new coach and new entrepreneur has had a lot of I [00:22:00] guess, blocks come up around like creating content, putting myself out there, like, who am I to make a podcast?
[00:22:06] John: Who am I to make a YouTube video? And I just noticed for myself. I don't have those blocks, right? And that is such a difference for me to be able to just turn on the camera and the microphone and start recording. And this is the second business in which I've done this and made content and built expertise around like what I know.
[00:22:26] John: To your point, originally, a lot of what I teach is just what I know. Just learned, especially in my private practice workshop business. It's like, learn something, teach it, learn something, teach it. But also part of what that does is that builds expertise around, wow, this guy must know a lot. And it's like, well, there's.
[00:22:42] John: There's both things that I know and also a lot that I don't know. And in reality, it's like, I see myself as a facilitator and someone that's good at helping people get out of their own way, right? Creating that space for them to actually do the work. Whereas some of the work, if in a true business consulting fashion might be like, Telling [00:23:00] the person what to do or like teaching them about SEO or podcasting or how to price your services or whatever.
[00:23:06] John: Right. So you get more into that consulting realm. So this is a long winded answer to say I have the issue lesson here. I am talking a ton, which proves that I don't have that. I appreciate
[00:23:18] Sara: it. I appreciate that you share that. Because I think in an IFS, we talk about, we have individual burdens. Or individual wounds to be healed, and we also have ancestral burdens and cultural burdens.
[00:23:32] Sara: And what I find in women and myself is that the ancestral and the cultural wounds are significant in terms of helping us to step in more fully into our confidence and our work and our voices in the world and being safe being seen. And so I actually, you know, I have, I mentioned one of my courses kind of like about the business building pieces and I have a whole other course for women entrepreneurs.
[00:23:58] Sara: That's about the inner work pieces [00:24:00] because actually. That's the bigger part, but actually the business building is pretty simple, but it's all the stuff that comes up that's a lot more complex. And one of the things we do in there is unburdening of the wound of patriarchy and feelings that, like, it's not safe to rise up and to speak and be seen.
[00:24:23] Sara: And it's very real, like there, there does, we do feel a lack of safety in our systems and our bodies and our nervous systems around. breaking free of that.
[00:24:37] John: Yeah. Some of the ways in which I benefit and suffer from the patriarchy to my awareness are there are ancestral burdens that go way back around overworking and proving a man's worth by being a provider and having that archetype that has been an example for me my whole life.
[00:24:56] John: That is again, both can be a real driver and [00:25:00] also a very dangerous dynamic to have inside of you, you know and I think many men feel quite burdened by that pressure, even when externally there is safety or more than enough money or you have to Two partners who are both working, you know, in the household, there's this sense of like, if I'm not providing, I'm a failure and it, it, it runs so deep.
[00:25:26] John: Yeah,
[00:25:27] Sara: for sure. Yeah. And I feel like that also feeds into the other, other cultural rooms of hyper individualism and materialism of like, we need to, like, we need to do this all ourselves. And if we're not acquiring things, we're not. Safe or we're not accepted. And there's just so many of these that feed into each other that's infiltrated or infiltrated in everything that we do.
[00:25:53] Sara: And it's hard to break free of them. And like we were talking about earlier, just to like [00:26:00] forge a new path or just to do create new role models for how, how it's possible to have what we want without driving ourselves into the ground or a lot of women without just hiding and not sharing your gifts with the world.
[00:26:18] John: Yeah, the role of mentors is massive. It's always been big in my life. My mentor who's been, you know, doing what I want to do, which is like being a really good trauma therapist. It's been doing it for decades, more than me, but also is the type of person I want to be. And so, Cool. Having that mentor and having that person that I am kind of striving toward being more like is really amazing.
[00:26:44] John: And I think people really lack mentors is part of the reason why people will seek out like a business coach or a business consultant is that kind of paid mentor type relationship where someone is believing in you and guiding you and can help you deal with obstacles as they arise [00:27:00] and get clear on Your heart and who you are and what you want and make place, make decisions from a place of self as much as possible.
[00:27:07] John: So yeah, I think it's huge.
[00:27:10] Sara: I agree. As I met, I was talking about my long time mentor earlier who introduced me to IFF and introduced me to so many things that are so deeply important to me. I don't know who I would be right now without her. And when I first met her in my twenties, I saw like she's in a great marriage.
[00:27:29] Sara: He's. As a thriving career, and she's doing it her way. And that just gave me hope and kind of gave me something to look towards. And it continues to, continues to. And I think that, you know, mentoring is, I call the work that I do mentoring rather than coaching because I like that model. I like that kind of field of mentorship of like,
[00:27:53] John: yeah, like
[00:27:53] Sara: you were saying earlier, like here are things that I've learned.
[00:27:56] Sara: There's experience that I've gained and I can, [00:28:00] I can share it, share it with you. And it's, it is important, I think, to have mentors over time that we grow with and evolve with. And through different seasons, I feel like it's kind of like an older model of learning, even like apprenticeship or something,
[00:28:17] Sara: Just evolving together.
[00:28:20] John: So people will ask me, like, how do you get a mentor? And all I can say is that in my experience and with my mentor I saw him doing therapy at a workshop and thought, That's exactly the type of therapy I want to do. And so I just went up and asked him, like, what, what would it take to work with you or work under you and to learn from you?
[00:28:42] John: And a position didn't exist at the time for me to be an intern at his college counseling center. And then he created a position and said, you know, if you want to work in this hallway closet and see people for free, I'll supervise you. And that was kind of how that started, you know, but and, I guess in a way, like just asking really [00:29:00] goes a long way.
[00:29:00] John: And I think people are afraid to ask again. I'm also aware of this, like always being rewarded for being assertive type thing. And maybe that benefited me too, to just, Go up and be like, Hey, we, you know, how do I work for you? And, and that, and that worked, but I think it's like, yeah, both a very ancient way of like learning and knowing and being guided and also kind of like not really talked about that much.
[00:29:25] Sara: Yeah.
[00:29:26] John: Yeah.
[00:29:26] Sara: And I think, I think women do it too. And you know, when we see someone that inspires us or we just feel that kind of inner knowing and there's that saying when the, when the student is ready, the teacher appears, it's like, Oh, there they are. Okay. There's just like something that lights up inside of us.
[00:29:42] Sara: Yeah. And in my case, I just kept, I just kept studying with her. I just kept doing things with her and you know, all these years later here, we're still here together. Yeah.
[00:29:52] John: Yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, I been you know, a therapist and working in, This field of mental [00:30:00] health for 15 some years. And it feels like in a way yesterday I was like seeking that mentor out.
[00:30:05] John: And then all of a sudden I wake up and I'm mentoring people and therapists are coming to me, you know, in that same position I was in and looking for guidance. So that's part of the richness that exists and that I love in the kind of lineage of psychotherapy is there's a lot of that learning that is kind of passed down through mentorship and supervision and.
[00:30:26] John: Whether it's formal or informal. And I really love that. Well, going back to these cultural burdens, I, I want to talk more about those. You know, I a lot of my practice has been in the Bay area and Silicon Valley. And so some of the values of Silicon Valley and the tech industry are like extreme individualism, materialism, and also this idea of productivity.
[00:30:48] John: I even had a client today who about halfway through the session just kind of stopped and said, I'm sorry, like I'm, this session's like, I'm not being productive in this session. And I was like, I'm so glad you said that. Cause let's [00:31:00] talk about that and what being productive here means, right? Like if all you do today is explore this part of you.
[00:31:07] John: That feels like you're not being productive enough. You're not being a good enough client. Then what if that was more than enough for our work today? Right. But I just find these burdens to be tremendous, especially this one around productivity.
[00:31:20] Sara: That is a big one. And I think about, you know, when I'm, I do, I have had a lot in groups and the, when women will come to like a group call and.
[00:31:31] Sara: Sometimes we'll do a parts check in, you know, what's, what's happening for you, what parts, you know, are present and a lot of times they'll say, I'm noticing a part of me that is having a really hard time concentrating and doesn't really want to be here, had a hard time coming here because I have so many things to do.
[00:31:47] Sara: And it's just like, that's part of just reminding me of this whole long list. And it's like, what. This is what are we accomplishing here right now? We're talking about this. So, but I think that, I think that this helps what we were talking about [00:32:00] earlier. It helps to slow down the mechanism that keeps us in this like pedal to the metal workaholic mode and starts to turn on that sea of curiosity.
[00:32:13] Sara: Well, what's driving this or who's driving this and can we get to know them a little bit better? And that in and of itself is, It's uncomfortable for those parts because it, where you inherently need to slow down in order to ask that. And these parts just want to want to speed up
[00:32:33] John: and of course, and IFS not acknowledging the intention, the good intention of all parts, right?
[00:32:38] John: It's like, whoa, there's a part that really wants me to make sure I get everything done in a day or that I don't fall behind or that a part that actually has a sense of healthy urgency of I want to make the most of my time. the most impactful business possible. It's like, Hey, thanks for that reminder.
[00:32:54] John: The reminder might come in a really intense way, or it might sound like a harsh inner critic. It might look and sound like [00:33:00] mom or dad or whomever. But if you look at that intention, it's often to help motivate the, the person, the system but often comes from a place of. It comes from a, a place of, of polarity, you know, or of a party and place of fear.
[00:33:17] John: Place of fear.
[00:33:18] Sara: Yeah. And like that, that question, and I asked what are you afraid would happen if we, if we weren't as productive or what are you afraid will happen if we're not as productive right now? And also, and I love that, that you presence, that all parts ultimately have positive intentions and that parts have agendas.
[00:33:40] Sara: Yeah. So coming back to that kind of practice I was sharing earlier of that inter family meeting or kind of like an inter conference table, we're talking about in business sense. And when parts can start to see or hear different agendas, then it also expands their awareness of, Oh, there's different ways of doing things.
[00:33:59] Sara: Like maybe [00:34:00] we can be as productive without doing it this way that we've always done it. Or maybe we can actually be more productive if we do it Paradoxically. Yeah. Okay.
[00:34:09] John: Yeah. There's a part that wants to work a lot. There's a part that like just wants to play and says, Hey maybe your creative pursuits are falling by the wayside because you're working so much, right?
[00:34:20] John: Bringing those parts of the table, making them aware of self, you know, starting that process of kind of unblending and negotiating around what we should do here and how we should spend our lives. Yeah. Spend our time.
[00:34:34] Sara: One of my business mentor years ago, and. She, she shared with me, and I know others have shared this too, that at a certain point overworking starts to work, look a lot like underworking.
[00:34:46] Sara: And I really just remind myself of that when I'm tired. And I'm just like doing, doing, doing, and I know that I'm actually not being that efficient or effective. And I just came back. I take the month of [00:35:00] August off every year for sabbatical. I just last week, it was my first week back in the office. And every time after I take time off, I come back with new ideas.
[00:35:09] Sara: Like how can I make things simpler? How can I do less? And it's, It's always an edge. It's always, you know, it's a continued growing exploration. And a lot of times the most successful people that I know, they, that actually the way to the way to new levels is, is to do less, is to simplify things. And there is, there is something to that, to really exploring what that can look like for each of us, just whatever season we're in.
[00:35:45] John: Letting your business breathe, getting some perspective, because obviously we spend most of the time in it, right, working in the business rather than on it. The common concepts, forgetting that perspective, that time away, that space, the time to just do nothing. [00:36:00] And then paradoxically, we end up getting the most clarity in those moments.
[00:36:03] John: It's like having. a strike of clarity when you're in the shower and not thinking about your business and you just have unbelievable clarity about what to do or whether or not to hire this person, right? Whatever it is. So productivity, you know, can look so different. I remember explaining this at one point to someone that as a business owner it's possible that me being out on the water surfing.
[00:36:26] John: And not thinking about my business is more productive than sitting at the desk, trying to think of new ideas or ways to grow the revenue or whatever. That's just been my experience over time, right? Is to spend as much time as I can stepping back, getting clear and Those are when I find I'm most connected to creativity or you could say, you know, self energy tends to come in those moments more so than when I'm like at my computer trying to just force it, you know, banging my head against the wall.[00:37:00]
[00:37:00] Sara: Yeah. And also just speaking as a, as a woman who's in midlife, I'm about to turn 47, one of the big epiphanies that I had during my time off last month was that I am definitely in perimenopause. I'm in perimenopause. And just really feeling that in my body, in my emotions, in my mind, and Really understanding as I'm stepping back into things that I need to structure things in a different way.
[00:37:28] Sara: It's like, it's a necessity for my health, for my sanity. And it's right now it feels challenging. You know, it's like my parts were like, how are we going to do this? Like even just needing to restructure when I have my meetings, when I eat my meals and really needing to make sure that I don't have periods of pushing and It's it's always an invitation of like, yeah, there's there's the next level wanting to happen here and to get there.
[00:37:54] Sara: We need to do things a different way. And how can we be creative and doing that?
[00:37:59] John: [00:38:00] That's right. Often parts are operating from historical context. And so you come back and parts are still working from those perspectives of how things were. I also find it interesting to ask people, what was the context during which you started your business?
[00:38:17] John: Early on in my career I started, I kind of fully became an entrepreneur during a bit of a a crisis basically, and my wife had been laid off all of a sudden we lost health insurance. Every single bill was all of a sudden a major stressor. And just overnight, it meant that I had a crazy amount of urgency in my business.
[00:38:37] John: Really it was, it felt like a crisis. So that was both a potent, you know, fuel source for some time that eventually led to burnout. And so parts of me still don't trust that we're not in that crisis, you know, and that's where the updating part of the unburdening sequence in IFS can be so helpful is that of course, parts are still going a hundred miles an hour because they, they [00:39:00] think I'm back there in that crisis.
[00:39:02] Sara: Yeah.
[00:39:07] John: As we start to wrap up here in a few minutes I guess, what do you feel like is missing from the conversation? Anything you want to make sure that you share before we start to talk more about yeah, your offerings and how you're helping people?
[00:39:21] Sara: I feel like we covered You know, the main points is to really at least from where I'm sitting in this moment is to create space to really listen to our higher self and be guided by that to hold these inner family meetings. You have to bring our parts on board and to do more targeted one on one work with various parts that are needing more support and to recognize that this confidence, this courage, this [00:40:00] clarity that we all want and need as leaders is this compassion.
[00:40:04] Sara: It's already it's innate within us. It's already here. We don't need to seek it extrinsically. We don't need to take a course to learn how to be confident. And it's like, it's already who we are. So how can we, how can we tap into these resources that live within us?
[00:40:23] John: Yeah. Thank you for that. That that's kind of the ultimate message that IFS offers the stance that IFS takes in the paradigm shift that IFS talks about.
[00:40:31] John: You put it really, really nicely there. Yeah, Sarah, again for doing this. And just to wrap up maybe a little bit about. More about your offerings and how you help women and how they can reach out and talk to you about working together.
[00:40:47] Sara: Sure. Well, the best way to connect with me is on my podcast.
[00:40:50] Sara: It's called herself. Two words and it blends IFF and women's spirituality. So you can find that wherever you listen to your podcast. [00:41:00] And then my website is just my name, sarahavonstrover. com and from there you can see various ways to work together, whether it's an online program, I lead in person retreats at various times of the year for women entrepreneurs and leaders.
[00:41:13] Sara: And I also do one on one mentoring.
[00:41:18] John: We'll put links to that stuff in the description and show notes, of course. And yeah, Sarah, thank you again for, for being here. I really appreciate getting to know you and hearing about your work and lots of the overlap we have as well in terms of how we help people and who we help.
[00:41:31] John: So yeah, thank you again. And I'd love to have you back sometime.
[00:41:35] Sara: Thanks. I enjoyed our conversation.
[00:41:37] John: All right. Take care. Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and share your favorite episode with a friend.
[00:41:48] John: You can follow me on Instagram, @ JohnClarkeTherapy and apply to work with me one on one at JohnClarkeTherapy.com. See you next time.