Human Design and IFS with Caitlan Siegenthaler
Human Design and IFS with Caitlan Siegenthaler
In this episode of Going Inside, I sit down with Caitlan Siegenthaler, a licensed IFS therapist, Human Design strategist, and new mom. We dive into the fascinating intersections between Human Design and Internal Family Systems (IFS), exploring how understanding our energy types can help us better navigate life, relationships, and personal growth. Whether you're new to Human Design or curious about how it complements IFS, this episode offers an accessible introduction to how these two approaches can work together to unlock self-compassion, alignment, and authentic connection.
Our Human Design energy type provides a roadmap for how we naturally show up in the world and can guide us toward alignment and fulfillment.
Combining Human Design with IFS can reveal and support parts of ourselves that might feel unseen or misunderstood in conventional approaches.
Understanding our unique decision-making strategies through Human Design helps us make choices that resonate with our true selves, especially in navigating life’s transitions and challenges.
Learn more about Caitlan Siegenthaler at:
https://www.instagram.com/caitlansiegenthaler
https://www.instagram.com/returnpod
https://unmarred-ease-0f1.notion.site/Human-Design-Offerings-5bcb73e0726b4a4e91476130f1753a1f
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Interview Transcript:
[00:00:00] Caitlan: I like to think of the energy types in human design as roles on a team, right? Not everyone can be the goalie. Not everyone can be the forward in soccer, but together those different positions make up a really well functioning team.
[00:00:22] John: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to introduce you to our sponsor for today, Jane, a clinic management software and EMR that helps you handle Your clinic's daily admin tasks. So you can free up your evenings and weekends. The Jane team understands how precious your time is and recognizes that charting can often be the most time consuming task for practitioners.
[00:00:42] John: That's why they're here to help to save you from having to start your chart notes from scratch. You can check out Jane's template library, which gives you access to templates that have been generously created and shared by health and wellness practitioners in the community. Once you have a template you like, you can choose to customize it further with charting tools, [00:01:00] such as range scales, text fields, check boxes, and more.
[00:01:03] John: To see how Jane can help you spend more time doing what you love, head to the link in the show notes to book a personalized demo. Or if you're ready to get started, you can use the code John at the time of signup for a one month grace period applied to your new account. Let's dive in. Caitlan Seigenthaler is a human design strategist, IFS therapist, podcaster, and your go to for ditching the shoulds.
[00:01:27] John: So you can actually enjoy the business you're building with her. No BS human design insights and an act for getting to the heart of what makes you tick. She's here to help you align your life, your biz, and your weird, wonderful self without losing the magic along the way. I almost made it through that without stumbling, but.
[00:01:46] Caitlan: I think it's good. I think it's good that we emphasize weird though, because that is the most important part of that intro is yes, all parts are welcome. Even though
[00:01:56] John: I was trying to stick that landing on weird. [00:02:00] So in that regard I did it. Caitlan, thanks for being here. And what else should people know about who you are and how you got here?
[00:02:07] Caitlan: Yeah, thank you so much, John, for having me. I've been looking forward to this conversation and I think it's important for people to know that I, I am a licensed IFS therapist first and foremost, and right now I'm also a new mom. I have a 10 month old little guy, and I realized that in developing like new parts, parenting parts, having all of that going on, I'm pivoting my business.
[00:02:33] Caitlan: And so I think people should just know that I'm like very honest and a human and I'm sharing that and taking people along. But for anyone out there who isn't IFS, I've been doing it for a while now, and I'm IFS level two trained. Probably will do level three at some point and might go for a certification, but I'm a huge fan of, The model in general, just the change I've [00:03:00] seen in my own inner world, the change I've seen in my clients and the richness in my relationships makes me, yeah, just really grateful to have come across IFS and now blending it with human design, I feel like gives all the parts of me, the weird ones, the more spiritual ones the inner child, the more exiled ones a little bit more.
[00:03:23] Caitlan: Yeah, space and a breathing room. And I guess for anyone listening to just ground them location wise, I've lived abroad. So I lived on and did my human design training actually in the IFS UK with them over there. And I lived in Switzerland for a few years in Spain for four months. And now I'm back in the U S
[00:03:44] John: yeah, what a journey.
[00:03:45] John: What part of the U S are you in now?
[00:03:47] Caitlan: I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, but right now I'm in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Oh,
[00:03:52] John: okay.
[00:03:53] Caitlan: Yeah.
[00:03:53] John: Yeah, I'm from Roanoke, Virginia. Oh, okay. A little midsize city that most [00:04:00] people don't know about. But yeah, I grew up going to Virginia beach every summer and I've now lived abroad a few times too, so I can appreciate that perspective and yeah, just the formative experiences that can bring about and the perspective of leaving the U S coming back to the U S.
[00:04:16] John: Leaving the US, you know Everything it illuminates. So yeah.
[00:04:21] Caitlan: Yeah. Where did you live abroad? If you don't mind me
[00:04:24] John: we were in Paris and my daughter was gonna be born there and then kovat happened and changed our plans overnight and otherwise we would probably still be there we had a Really amazing life in Paris and friends and community.
[00:04:38] John: And for me, it was just what I needed coming off the tail of, uh, working a lot and getting burned out and just being like a victim to a lot of us values or toxic us values, like capitalism, overworking and perfectionism, a lot of things actually that would infuse themselves into.
[00:04:58] John: My business right [00:05:00] of like scarcity mindset and not enough I'm like not grinding enough whatever it is a lot of that I picked it up through, you know through it being in the water and not to say I'm fully healing in those regards but living in Paris certainly helped me slow down and You know shift my priorities a bit.
[00:05:21] John: So anyway, we could talk more about that. But
[00:05:23] Caitlan: Yeah, I had a similar experience in terms of covid impacting plans I was living in switzerland at the time of covid but I agree I think it's it was really helpful in terms from an ifs lens for me to get to know parts of myself that were more culturally, Developed or legacy burdens that kind of stuff.
[00:05:42] Caitlan: So yeah,
[00:05:43] John: that's right. Starting out with this human design piece What is human design?
[00:05:49] Caitlan: Yeah, I am curious for you. Have you ever heard of it or do you know your energy type or anything?
[00:05:56] John: No, the short answer is no I know about things like [00:06:00] lifestyle design and i'm really interested in things like that because of Being an entrepreneur for my whole career as a therapist and also a podcast or a content creator you know someone who is interested in how we got to things like the 40 hour work week and Totally should be so so but that might not have anything to do with human design
[00:06:20] Caitlan: well, I like where your head's at because I think that we can take that idea and hold that here and then also bring in human design So human design is a little bit more like it's spiritual in terms of its origination and how it's used.
[00:06:35] Caitlan: So it was downloaded and I say this in air quotes by this guy who gave himself the name Rahuru in 1987. So there's a bit of a culturally appropriated tone to it. And however, despite its kind of questionable slash problematic start, I think human design is essentially. the [00:07:00] blueprint or information that we all have that is about how we are designed to show up in the world and how we should best use our energy.
[00:07:08] Caitlan: So like you were saying, what you've learned about other, design strategies or other things that can be helpful as entrepreneurs, human design is the same. So it basically combines astrology, the I Ching, Kabbalah, Vedic philosophy and the chakra system. And if you look at the chart, it's this blank human head and like a floating body with no arms.
[00:07:33] Caitlan: And then there's different centers and different pieces to all of that. It looks like the chakra system imprinted on there. But I think what's most helpful about human design is really the energy piece. And I'll get into an, in a little bit more about weaving human design with IFS and how that can be super helpful for folks, but.
[00:07:57] Caitlan: I'll just pause there since you're new to human [00:08:00] design and just see yeah, what's going on. I'm really
[00:08:03] John: interested It's not what I thought it might be. But i'm very interested, And you're certainly in the right place in terms of being on this podcast because the more I do this the more I end up interviewing guests like you that have like an ifs and something that is yeah auxiliary to ifs And I find a lot of ifs folks naturally have their hand in energetic work spirituality astrology genie grant like all sorts of things and so i've had bob falconer in here multiple times.
[00:08:34] John: Oh amazing. I'm
[00:08:35] Caitlan: a fan of his work yeah
[00:08:37] John: this type of conversation. So You Yeah, I'm just curious for you to say more.
[00:08:41] Caitlan: Yeah, of course. Okay. So now that we've landed the initial plane Human design is really an experiment as well So we're meant to take the information that we're given about our energy type which is just like the big header So There's lots of other details, but I think today we'll just go into energy types, because [00:09:00] that's the most out there and the most information folks can find.
[00:09:03] Caitlan: But I always like to tell people it is an experiment, and my playful parts love that, right? That's already giving a little bit of self energy, because we can be curious, we can play around, we can see oh, okay, so I'm this energy type in human design, maybe I should try approaching XYZ thing in this way.
[00:09:24] Caitlan: The fundamental piece as listeners are listening to this is like the key header about human design, is it helps you understand how you are uniquely designed to operate in the world, rather than how you are conditioned to show up. And now we can start to see where IFS is coming in as well, of ooh, what did our parts learn?
[00:09:44] Caitlan: Versus what's like that core self and that's why I love it and I get really excited about combining the two
[00:09:53] John: Amazing. Yeah. So How do you go about finding your energy type or helping your clients? [00:10:00] Yeah, great
[00:10:00] Caitlan: question. So everyone has a chart similar to like astrology, right? You could go on the internet and put in your like birth date time location and boom an astrology chart is gonna pop out So it's the same thing for human design.
[00:10:12] Caitlan: So we could even live look up your chart based on your birth date, time and information. And it's going to give you this it's called a body graph, but like I said, it's just a picture of a human head with no face and a bunch of lines and charts and numbers and It's like astrology in that way and that it's really overwhelming, but people can just Google and I can even share a link with you.
[00:10:34] Caitlan: If we want to put it in the description a link to getting their human design Jovian archive is a great resource. So is my human design. com, but. Once you pull your chart, then you can see there are different components to it. And so for listeners listening who want to follow along and do this with us, they can go to my human design.
[00:10:55] Caitlan: com, put in their birth date, time, location, and then they will [00:11:00] get at the top, it's going to say energy type, and I'll talk about the five different ones.
[00:11:04] John: Wow. Very interesting. Um, I'm happy to be your guinea pig if that's on the table. Let's do
[00:11:11] Caitlan: it. Yeah, of course. I think this will be fun and like helpful for people who have different learning styles too.
[00:11:19] John: Let's do it.
[00:11:20] Caitlan: All right. Let's do it, John. All right. So you're going to go to myhumandesign. com.
[00:11:27] John: Do you want me to do it or are you going to do it? Oh, I
[00:11:29] Caitlan: can do it. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's fine. Sure. Happy to do that. All right, are you okay with telling people your date of birth? That's a good question.
[00:11:40] John: Maybe I should double think that I don't that's why I was
[00:11:44] Caitlan: like, I don't know.
[00:11:46] Caitlan: I here I can give you the link if you want
[00:11:51] John: Okay, so my human design. com so i'm there I'll just put it in really quickly and then we can
[00:11:58] Caitlan: sounds good [00:12:00]
[00:12:00] John: talk through it.
[00:12:01] John: Even easier i'll just put it in the chat for you Perfect because i'd love for you to be able to see the results and Yeah, I don't know the precise time I was born. No pretty cool. You have
[00:12:12] Caitlan: A Four ish hour window. Okay, that would be good. Okay, cool I'll use the like middle of those two things perfect.
[00:12:21] John: Okay, good text my mom right now But
[00:12:25] Caitlan: right mom
[00:12:29] Caitlan: all right, so
[00:12:34] Caitlan: in About 30 seconds. We should have your chart, which is so exciting Oh, there it is. There are many towns with the same name of the place you were born. There we go. Yes,
[00:12:49] John: there are.
[00:12:52] Caitlan: All right. Ooh, so fun. Okay wait, how can I, let me download the chart so I can send it back to [00:13:00] you so you Can know what i'm looking at
[00:13:02] John: sure
[00:13:02] Caitlan: and for listeners that are listening once you Do this with us.
[00:13:07] Caitlan: You're gonna get this thing. It's really overwhelming at first like everyone has this experience of it being Like wait, what there's all these numbers and da So i'm going to keep us focused on the high level and then Help people have resources if they want to know more. Is there a way I can Upload it
[00:13:29] John: Maybe not here, but I know You can show the screen.
[00:13:31] John: I don't know if that would show my birthday and all that, but
[00:13:35] Caitlan: I don't know I'll just email it over so you just so you have it.
[00:13:38] John: Okay, cool
[00:13:40] Caitlan: Sending it now
[00:13:49] Caitlan: Just so you can see it because it is there's a big visual component to this And so if you are listening you can take the information if you're like driving or something, [00:14:00] but I would recommend Coming back to it when you can sit down and visually see your chart so that it's just really clear You What's going on and how you can get there.
[00:14:12] Caitlan: All right
[00:14:16] Caitlan: Oh, where is it now?
[00:14:18] John: So i'm assuming this is something you actually do with clients or you have them do it and then bring it in
[00:14:23] Caitlan: So this is something that I do with clients. So if clients are working with me They would give me permission to Pull their chart and I would do this ahead of time So I would already know their chart and then the first step in my process is always getting a chart reading, right?
[00:14:39] Caitlan: So that they understand what's going on in their chart that they have all of the information And that shapes our work together in that way, so I always have their chart on hand and reference it and Give them information You So that they can feel the most empowered [00:15:00] that they can.
[00:15:02] John: Okay.
[00:15:02] John: Interesting. Sorry, I don't
[00:15:03] Caitlan: Why?
[00:15:04] John: It's okay. You can send it to me later. Okay. We can just talk through the results.
[00:15:09] Caitlan: Sounds good. The results are, I get really excited about everyone's chart and human design, I feel like. But, your results, so you're a generator, and for anyone listening, this is gonna be, it's gonna say type when you pull your chart and you look.
[00:15:26] Caitlan: And I'm talk, I'm gonna talk now about. The main types because that's what you're going to find the most information about on the internet about what's happening and With human design. I like to think of it. I played sports growing up. So I played soccer and basketball. So I like to think of the energy types and human design as Different roles on a team, right?
[00:15:51] Caitlan: Not everyone can be the goalie. Not everyone can be the forward in soccer but together You Those different [00:16:00] positions make up a really well functioning team. So your energy type is actually the most common, which is great because that's where we're gonna start anyways. And you're a generator in human design.
[00:16:11] Caitlan: So I like to think about the generator as the person who is like, Joyful and has consistent ongoing energy on the team So your energy is best used when you are doing things that like really let you up and make you feel excited and Make you feel just happy to be doing them you are the Energy type on this like collective team if we think about it as a collective that's going to get us You moving forward because you have so much energy to use, but it's only when you're doing things that light you up or make you happy that your energy is like clean energy.
[00:16:57] Caitlan: If that makes sense. What's going on for you [00:17:00] as I say,
[00:17:01] John: The first thing I thought of is really just a parallel to like doing this show. Because when I have, When I'm aligning what I'm doing with my passion and something now like IFS and trauma work and just my identity as a therapist I have like limitless energy.
[00:17:17] Caitlan: Yeah, it can
[00:17:18] John: also be a risk to when I mentioned before the burnout of
[00:17:21] Caitlan: Totally
[00:17:22] John: putting so much into it. I also Interestingly, you know I was I'm Reiki level 2 trained and my Reiki instructor like the first time I got trained was like you have a tremendous amount of energy from a Reiki perspective Even though I'm not like bouncing off the walls, you know in that type of Frenetic energy, but I had a lot of energy that was palpable in that Reiki Context and so that kind of aligns with me too.
[00:17:51] John: And then on the other hand, yeah Like I said, if I'm doing things that are draining or have to do things that are draining. It's like the opposite,
[00:17:59] Caitlan: [00:18:00] Yeah, exactly. So Really any generators listening if they want to best use their energy type they should do As much as possible As much of the things that bring them joy as possible.
[00:18:13] Caitlan: And what's cool or what I like about human design is there's a information it's called your, how to know you're off track, right? So for you, that is it's called not self theme, but I've renamed them because I think they're not, that does not really helpful. So you're off track when you feel really frustrated as a generator.
[00:18:38] Caitlan: I see you nodding. I'll give you a second.
[00:18:40] John: No, it's great. Yeah. If I feel like things aren't moving forward, I have very low tolerance for it. I have low tolerance for like bureaucracy and things that have a lot of steps or unnecessary steps. And also it's probably why I'm pretty well suited for entrepreneurship because I like things that are fast and loose and don't have a lot of rules for being able to like, [00:19:00] Make content and do it my way or have these conversations so that appeals to me
[00:19:04] Caitlan: Yeah, absolutely And then for all generators listening They're like sign that they're aligned is just when you feel like really that energy where you could it's like limitless, but it feels like When you eat good food and not junk food, like junk food, it tastes good But it's gonna give you that like high and then you're gonna crash It's the same for generators Like probably you probably have a lot of energy to do this show because I imagine you enjoy it I mean if you've done this many i'm a podcaster too, so I know the effort it takes to put this out So you have to like it to be able to do it.
[00:19:42] Caitlan: Yeah,
[00:19:43] John: that's great. Yeah, I have An analogy that I came up with just when working with a client a long time ago, which was clean fuel versus dirty fuel, or having a motivation of again, maybe a scarcity mindset or just wanting to crush the competition or to see other people lose. And [00:20:00] these fuel sources that might be really potent and giving you like spurts of energy, but are ultimately pretty dirty and unclean and not great for you.
[00:20:08] John: And A lot of what I think about is connecting people to a clean energy source, whatever that might be for them. So that could be like connecting them to their purpose, switching into a career that's aligned with their values and who they are. A lot of people like from a cognitive dissonance perspective, live in a lot of dissonance and wonder why I have this anxiety in my belly all the time.
[00:20:27] John: They're just totally out of alignment or whatever. Yeah.
[00:20:31] Caitlan: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's nice to give it a name, as a generator. Your sign that you're out of alignment is frustration I think naming that and when we bring human design in oh, so what parts of you feel frustrated when?
[00:20:47] Caitlan: And pulling that into the context. So the last piece I want to say before we pause, and this is what's hard is we're trying to distill down like a pretty complex thing in [00:21:00] a short amount of time, but if we keep it high level. As a generator, you also have a strategy and this is where I really like to use it with entrepreneurs so that they can use more of that strategy in their businesses and I love helping service providers like therapists.
[00:21:17] Caitlan: And your strategy, and anyone else who's a generator, is to respond to things. So you should really never start anything from a blank screen, you should or a blank slate, you should really be responding to the world. I think there's a quote by Dolly Parton, where she's a generator in human design, and I'm trying to remember the quote, but it was something like everything was inspiration to her for her work And she's like I just go out into the world and get inspired and that's a very generator thing to say
[00:21:50] John: Fascinating.
[00:21:51] John: Yeah, I could align that really easily with my life as a musician, you know I've been a drummer since I was 10 and Notoriously like I have a really hard [00:22:00] time generating anything without being with other musicians. It's almost I don't know what to do or play, but then if I'm in a room with even one musician, things come alive like really quickly.
[00:22:11] John: And then I have like friends on the other hand, who in a, Room alone can create amazing things out of, nothing. And I've always been interested in that too, but same thing for these podcasts, right? Having people like you come on and generating ideas is way more natural for me than sitting down and going, okay, I'm going to share 10.
[00:22:31] John: Ideas right now,
[00:22:32] Caitlan: yeah Exactly. Like you get to respond to your guests and what's happening and that makes your show so appealing. So That's the generator type and for any People who have statistician parts or logical parts and want to know the breakdown generators make up about 37 percent of the population so They are the most common energy type and if we go back to the team analogy, right like on a soccer team We need [00:23:00] People who have that level of energy to be in the majority so that we are not all just okay, we need to take a nap all day every day.
[00:23:09] Caitlan: And when the idea or the thing in human design that I think weaves so well into IFS is, In human design, it's about alignment and IFS, it's about self and self energy and supporting those parts and helping them return to self and be known by self. And it's the same thing because the more we have people doing what lights them up or being in their like generator energy, that to me is exactly the same as self energy.
[00:23:39] Caitlan: And we can get into the overlap with IFS and the exciting bits once, once we ground people in like, All of the different energy types just so they can learn a little bit more, but I hope that's resonating I really wish you could see your chart because you're gonna be like
[00:23:52] John: it's definitely You know has my interest.
[00:23:55] John: i'm of course curious to hear how this has played out in your life. i'm [00:24:00] also Yeah, I'm curious about that.
[00:24:02] Caitlan: Yeah, for sure. So I think before going into the other energy types, I'll just talk about my experience and use it as an example. So I'm a projector in human design, which is about 20 percent of the population.
[00:24:17] Caitlan: So if you pulled up your chart and it says projector at the top. This is you are the same energy type as I am And I first heard about human design probably in 2017 on a podcast and I was like, huh, that's weird some guy like went into the woods and Downloaded this thing and it seemed really complicated at the time and it didn't really resonate And so I just was like, huh?
[00:24:41] Caitlan: That's interesting, but i'm gonna leave it alone and then it kept appearing over and over again Then I heard it on another podcast and I heard it on another podcast and finally You I was curious enough to be like, what is this thing? And by 2018, I'd started ordering books and reading stuff and getting really into looking at my own chart.
[00:24:59] Caitlan: And when I [00:25:00] learned I was a projector in human design, something in me just clicked. You know any of those moments where your parts feel deeply seen? It was one of those moments for me, and I think that's why I love combining IFS with it, because there are parts of us that our protectors are protecting and we can't quite get to, that all of a sudden our protectors have a different perspective.
[00:25:24] Caitlan: So what happened for me was I realized that I had parts of me that were shaming me for the way I was interacting with the world. And one of the important things to know about projectors is we don't, projectors don't have the same energy as you. So you have as a generator a consistent Energy source like you generate your own energy every single day as a projector.
[00:25:54] Caitlan: I don't have that. So my energy is Inconsistent. It [00:26:00] means I am not here to do all of the doing But I have other gifts that I need to use them for and when I found that out my inner critic was able to Stop shaming me and stop the story of being quote unquote lazy Because that's what I had been conditioned to believe about myself and you know We started this episode with talking about living abroad and realizing like cultural and legacy burdens that we might have picked up Growing up in the u.
[00:26:33] Caitlan: s It was just this moment of a reframe almost of wow Maybe i'm just designed Transcribed differently and that my gift isn't that I need to do all of the things, but as a projector, my gift is having like a bird's eye view on people and how I can make things more efficient, both for people and in their life.
[00:26:58] Caitlan: So that's my, [00:27:00] yeah, story about coming into human design and feeling just really seen and really moved and Then that's when self comes in, right? Then I was able to have so much compassion for all of the parts involved in that. Not only the parts that were trying to help me fit in a generator world, but also the parts that were, saying Hey, we're tired.
[00:27:27] Caitlan: We need a break. We need some rest. That just opened up a pathway to self energy that I hadn't experienced.
[00:27:36] John: Yeah, some other words that help me make sense of this, and especially coming from, the world of psychology are like like strengths based, approach to seeing a person.
[00:27:48] John: I also think about Human development a lot. I have a four year old daughter. My, my first child and she seeing her grow into like her gifts and [00:28:00] strengths or even seeing at school where some of her gifts are really well utilized and some of them are really not, they're like not valued.
[00:28:06] John: And I have parts that are really activated by that because that was And in my story I wasn't a kid who could sit still or remember things or memorize things. And so I was stereotyped around that and really suffered because of it. And so I've had to then create a life as an adult where that that's really centered around my strengths or my innate gifts.
[00:28:30] John: And to your point, like we have parts that can do it. Like when I have a friend who has an OCD. This intellectualizer part that likes to know the hard facts about everything, but it just feels like a part. It does. You know what I mean? It's just that's a way of staying safe, but it's also a distancing thing.
[00:28:44] John: And it's that's a strong part that's valued in society of being a hard scientist, being a critical thinker, show me the numbers perspective. And if that's truly who you are, then that's beautiful. But sometimes it doesn't feel like that's quite who you are. Or even if we [00:29:00] ask clients to connect does that feel like who you are?
[00:29:02] John: There's no, but it's but it pays off right or it pays well,
[00:29:05] Caitlan: Yeah, i'm so appreciating what you're saying because I feel like Untangling that is always at the core of my work, right? It's yeah if that if you truly are A logical person, that's great. And if you have a part that is protecting you by using logic, that's a different story.
[00:29:26] John: And that's
[00:29:27] Caitlan: what I love human design for because it's like, yeah, strength based, right? It's like all of a sudden you can see this part in a different light that the external world maybe wouldn't value. As much or wouldn't give as much credit to and like a capitalistic society, right? Cause I have parts that are like, and I have, I don't know, I could, I feel emotional even thinking about them, but they're the young parts that are like, I just want to play.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Caitlan: I just want to run around and play outside. Like, why are you forcing me to do these things? And I think human design is, I know human design is. a gateway to unlocking that world a little bit more with more permission and more yeah more self energy that protectors have previously Derailed us into one track of thinking.
[00:30:27] John: That's right. I love to hear more about the other energy types I'm sure people listening who are not a generator are dying to hear
[00:30:35] Caitlan: They're like, okay next come on. Yeah, definitely. So The next most common energy type is something called a manifesting generator and it's taking the manifester energy type Which we'll get to in a little bit and the generator and smashing them together.
[00:30:50] Caitlan: So this is about probably 33 ish percent of the population and So generators and manifesting generators [00:31:00] make up 70 percent which is why if you're a non energy type like me I think we're even more oh my goodness human design. That's right. I don't have all of this energy, but Manifesting Generators are these amazing, multi passionate, and we can all have different pa I would consider myself a multi passionate person, but Manifesting Generators are like, what's going they are meant to bop from thing to thing.
[00:31:24] Caitlan: If we think about the energy on the team, they get the team excited they are the people that bring that level of excitement, and they're coming with new ideas, and they're If we go back to the soccer team, maybe they're going to the coach and they're like, maybe we should do a different we should have a different number of people as forwards and then we should do a different kind of layout move around The defense that's a manifesting generator energy.
[00:31:47] Caitlan: Like they are really lit up by Doing a bunch of stuff and using their energy to do it. And so they're here to respond to things like your strategy, but then to initiate things. And that's [00:32:00] the manifester strategy. And they can also feel that frustration when things are off track, when things are not going well.
[00:32:09] Caitlan: And I think manifesting generators get a little bit misunderstood sometimes because, especially in the business world. As entrepreneurs, we're told pick a niche, write a niche statement, da, and that's helpful. You need to know who you're talking to with your ideal client. However, manifesting generators are so multi passionate.
[00:32:31] Caitlan: I have an incredible friend and colleague who's a manifesting generator, and she has a true crime podcast, but she also is a professor. And teaches about decolonization of therapy and all of that stuff, and then she also does Reiki, and then she does, and you can start to see how all of this stuff is not connected, but that's okay, and so I think I'm passionate, too, about helping service providers.
[00:32:57] Caitlan: Let's do this because let's build [00:33:00] a business that is centered on how you're designed and help your parts, and how your parts show up. So that's manifesting generator. They, of course, have consistent energy as well, just like a generator does. Yeah, I'm sure we all know a manifesting generator in our lives and it's, it starts to get really cool when you have the charts of people around you, like your partner and your kiddo and all of that stuff.
[00:33:27] Caitlan: The next energy type after manifesting generator in terms of commonality is projector, which I shared. That's what I am. I talked a little bit about a projector, but it's 20 percent of the population. Projector energy is really deep. If you think about an aura, they can penetrate into the other person in a really deep way.
[00:33:47] Caitlan: And projector strategy is actually to wait for the invitation. You and I did human design perfectly because you invited me to be on this podcast. Instead of me reaching out and being like, Hey, [00:34:00] John, have you ever heard of this? Do you think you should do that? I was just sharing and talking about human design and IFS and that resonated, so then now I'm here.
[00:34:11] Caitlan: That's me living out in my strategy because we need people to be ready for what we have to say as projectors. And as a projector, whenever I tell projectors this, they're like, oh my gosh, they can think about so many times when. They had a part that wanted to force someone to do something, like they could just see it happening and Oh, I really want my mom to go to therapy because da and I can just tell that this and that and When we're not invited to share that wisdom, we can get cut off from connection.
[00:34:49] Caitlan: And that's something else I love about human design is it helps bring us into connection, not only with ourselves, but with other people, which is, one of the eight C's in IFS. So [00:35:00] projectors also. know that they're off track when they start to feel resentful. And I could feel this so much in my previous, even work.
[00:35:11] Caitlan: I didn't go to grad school right away to become a therapist. I worked in the corporate world and then I left, but I was feeling so resentful there. And I didn't know about human design at that time, but that would have been really good information for me to have projectors also don't have consistent energy.
[00:35:29] Caitlan: And. Raw, that guy that started all of this, he said projectors are meant to only work four hours a day, which I was like, okay, that sounds great. And I think all of us, would appreciate that and resonate with that. But yeah, projectors, the wisdom for projectors or the gift is not in the doing, but in their ability to see.
[00:35:55] Caitlan: How things could be more efficient and we need that on the team because if we go back to the [00:36:00] soccer team The projectors are going to the coach and they're like, you know what? This is really inefficient and I can tell that our goalie Caitlan she I didn't play goalie because I was like, this is too much pressure, but our goalie Caitlan she is You know, she's really good at penalty kick saves, but I think her punting needs some work, or whatever it is.
[00:36:22] Caitlan: Projectors can see that in other people. We have two more types, and they're not very common. So the last type, or the second to last type, is a manifester, and it's about 7 percent of the population. And they are initiators. So they have this very intense energy. They're here to like initiate things and kick us forward.
[00:36:51] Caitlan: We might be kicking and screaming, but they're like, Hey, this is where we're going. I know that we need to go there. So come on. I think [00:37:00] manifestors are probably the coach of the soccer team. And they're like making us do all of this conditioning and Running and we're like stop. I don't want to do it.
[00:37:09] Caitlan: And they're like, nope, too bad. You're gonna do it they can be repelling though, they can have a an intense aura and They're really misunderstood. I'll just tell a quick story about my dad. My dad is 65, definitely of the baby boomer generation, probably couldn't tell you what astrology is.
[00:37:28] Caitlan: And when I was talking about human design, he was starting to listen. And my joke is, if we're seated together at a dinner party, I likely will have your chart pulled up by the end of the night and we'll be chatting about it So eventually my dad was like, what is this? He wanted to know he was curious There's my invitation and my projector parts are like, yes grab the microphone.
[00:37:50] Caitlan: Let's tell him so I got I wasn't doing a chart readings at the time but I got him like a printout and gave him more information and got him more [00:38:00] information about his chart and That was three or four years ago, and he still talks about it because his parts Had felt so seen in that experience, had felt so understood, those parts that had been told, you're too much, you got to do things this way, da, all of the things, they felt wow, they had permission.
[00:38:26] Caitlan: And what I would describe from an IFS lens is, my dad now has so much more self energy without even going to therapy,
[00:38:34] John: Yeah.
[00:38:34] Caitlan: to those parts.
[00:38:39] Caitlan: And then the last type is reflectors, and they're only 1 percent of the population, and they are here to really reflect back how we're doing. So if we think about the team thing, they're like telling us, yep, you guys are doing great as a society, or no you're not. But their strategy is [00:39:00] to take some time and really reflect.
[00:39:03] Caitlan: They know they're on track if they're feeling surprised. Yeah, there's so much more to say but I really want to be mindful of time
[00:39:13] John: I do want to talk more about the types, but I also want to hear about the other components of Human design you mentioned the chakra system Something i've been more and more interested in over the past few years, especially as I i've gotten deeper into Yeah, my own spirituality and energetic work.
[00:39:29] John: Thank you. So How is the chakra system relevant to human design?
[00:39:34] Caitlan: Yeah, beautiful question So if You could see your chart. There is a body graph, and it's, it is There's triangles
[00:39:47] John: I pulled and then there's
[00:39:48] Caitlan: oh you have it amazing. Okay, great. So everyone following along pull up your chart This is the time or come back to the section bookmark it so Do you see john [00:40:00] like your chart for instance at the very top?
[00:40:02] Caitlan: There's that top triangle and it's not colored in and then there's a bottom triangle flip down. Do you see all of that?
[00:40:07] John: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:08] Caitlan: Yeah, so All of that aligns with a chakra, right? The crown chakra. Then we have the Ajna center. Then that square right going down that column, that's your throat chakra. Then we have the G center, like the heart chakra.
[00:40:27] Caitlan: And so that's how human design overlaps with the chakra system is if it's colored in That means you have consistent energy available in that chakra if it's not colored in That means that you are open to and taking on the energy of other people so You had said something about your experience in school around like ideas or something about that made me think about Your openness at the top of your chart particularly in [00:41:00] your crown chakra and your Ajna So I don't know if that resonates.
[00:41:04] Caitlan: I can't even remember what exactly was said, but there was a part of me That was like, ah, he has all of those open and I just made a little mental note. So
[00:41:14] John: it's fascinating this piece around So it says on the right authority meaning the way you make decisions. Yeah, be my sacral authority AKA listening to your gut.
[00:41:26] John: It's actually something that I've been really focused on this idea lately of in, in the case of trauma. We often bypass our intuition. We bypass our gut. I've had so many clients who say I knew not to do X, Y, and Z, or I knew this was a bad person or there's something off, but I did it anyway. And I'm so interested in how we get there to bypassing intuition.
[00:41:47] John: And then what happens is this major disconnection from it and from the gut from your intuition because I, because I got traumatized, I got abused, I got misled, whatever. And I've been making more [00:42:00] decisions from my like sacral chakra, like literally from my gut and letting my body tell me yes or no That's a way better way of making decisions for me than being heady And why don't you make a pros and cons list like that just doesn't work for me and so with some clients I'll do something as simple as like in working to reestablish this connection is like Looking at a piece of food on your table and wait until you get an answer from your body of do I want to eat this or not?
[00:42:25] John: Like like intuitive eating or whatever, but just a, it's just a different way of getting information. And could we be open to getting that way of information and see what clarity feels like or even starting with is your name? John, it's how that resonates in your body like basic building blocks of strengthening that connection again is super interesting to me
[00:42:45] Caitlan: I love what you're saying because you've intuitively tapped into alignment and your design and a lot of times when I read I Do audio reading so I send it to people I'll do the whole audio thing so they can listen to it over and over again and I Yeah, I find [00:43:00] that's better because, some parts need time to digest.
[00:43:03] Caitlan: Anyways. Yeah,
[00:43:04] John: it's a lot.
[00:43:05] Caitlan: So the feedback I always get is oh, wow, I was already feeling like this or Doing that just in what you described, like you intuitively arrived at that place. And so sometimes I think human design is just the permission slip to keep going and let your logical parts know Hey, it's okay.
[00:43:23] Caitlan: I've got this. But what's so interesting about the authority is like, we all have different authorities. So yours is sacral, but mine is not. So I'm actually not meant to listen to my gut at all. And I think this is One of the most underestimated things and so helpful in trauma work in You know using IFS parts work because it's did that decision come from a part of you?
[00:43:52] Caitlan: Or did it come from self?
[00:43:54] John: Right
[00:43:54] Caitlan: and knowing the way you're meant to make decisions in human design
[00:43:57] John: Yeah can help reaffirm [00:44:00] that yeah
[00:44:00] Caitlan: Exactly.
[00:44:02] John: Yeah. Even these markers of how do you know when you're in self or more in self than in a part when you have a sufficient degree of self energy or making a self led decision.
[00:44:11] John: Or if you're going into a really hard conversation with like your partner or someone at work or whomever or a friend, you had some conflict. How do you know when you're in self? Right or bringing more self into the situation. That's a question I ask clients a lot because their experience of it is very different Sometimes we just have to we get there by unblending from parts right or coming in and going.
[00:44:34] John: Oh my gosh I have this conversation coming up with my boss and I'm just freaking out and going toward that and using it as a trailhead and Slowly unblending from parts and then going notice how this feels different than when you came in right open expansive curious You I'm actually feeling hopeful about the conversation now.
[00:44:50] John: It actually could be a good thing. Just what are the markers that you know that you have for how you know you're more in self?
[00:44:58] Caitlan: Yeah, I would say [00:45:00] Definitely coming back to my body and for me self feels so calm and feels so I experience it in my body as just like almost a knowing Like this knowing place and I can connect that to my human design and my decision making strategy because my decision making strategy is actually like a whisper comes in and then I'm meant to make, I'm meant to follow that.
[00:45:30] Caitlan: But I think exploring that question and holding that is so helpful for people as they work with IFS and work with their parts. And even if they want to use human design as like a tool, it's more information as a guide to doing that. Because my podcast is called return and it's all about helping people return to themselves.
[00:45:50] Caitlan: And I think. Human design is one of those ways. IFS is one of those ways, but they all are information like guiding us back to. [00:46:00] Arduous desires
[00:46:01] John: similar to the experience of your dad. It parallels the Paradigm shift of ifs or the stance of ifs of what if there was nothing wrong with you? Yeah, right or in my case having done pretty poorly in school and concluding there must be something wrong with me Or a lot of things wrong with me.
[00:46:18] John: In fact teachers and school psychologists and physicians were telling me there was a lot wrong with me but this possibility of what if there was nothing wrong with you can be so You Such an inspiring sentiment and then getting to know your parts, your types. Again, people love anything in the realm of personality personality test.
[00:46:39] John: Just anything that goes, Oh yeah, that, that is how I am. And I have this feeling that I can't really change it, even though it causes friction sometimes in my life, or I resist this part of me that is analytical or quote too sensitive or whatever it is. And a lot of our suffering comes from that.
[00:46:56] John: Hesitance or that, that friction inside of, I wish I wasn't this [00:47:00] way. And we, Exiling our own exiles,
[00:47:03] Caitlan: Yeah, exactly especially the exiles that aren't externally celebrated or externally seen There's a lot of very hard working protective parts that get a lot of external validation but they can Really?
[00:47:20] Caitlan: They need extra support in the system. They can cause a lot of Polarization and things in the system, burnout. Oh my gosh. I could be a different podcast. But that's where I find human design is turns a light on, for those parts and for those protectors to see things differently or to even see.
[00:47:42] Caitlan: The exiles that they yeah,
[00:47:46] John: beautiful somehow we're out of time, which I need to just start doing three hour podcasts apparently because anytime I reach 50 minutes And i'm like now I have 100 more questions and curiosities about my guests and what they're bringing. [00:48:00] Yeah that's for another day.
[00:48:01] John: Or I'll just have to have you back another day to talk more about this. Hopefully this is getting given people an idea of what this is about, what it can offer them. You mentioned some great resources like my human design. com for folks to start digging into their own types here. That being said, I also know you help people with stuff like this.
[00:48:19] John: You mentioned the audio readings you do. I'd love for you to plug some of that and let people know. How they can reach out and learn more about working with you.
[00:48:26] Caitlan: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for having me, John. And I know we talked a lot about human design today and I understand, everyone, we all want to have more compassion for ourselves, which is super top of mind for all of us.
[00:48:38] Caitlan: So I'm going to give your listeners 20 percent off of my human design audio readings so they can get way more information about how they're uniquely designed. And I. I do all of these custom, so I tell you exactly like everything in your chart there are different options and so that they can start there and really see that there are no bad parts [00:49:00] and I will give you the link where folks can purchase that, but they should use the code inside that I created for you at checkout.
[00:49:09] John: Perfect. Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the description. That's a great way to get started with this stuff I might even take you up on it. Just to get deeper into my reading here that being said also, are you doing therapy nowadays or how else do you like work with clients?
[00:49:25] Caitlan: Yeah, great question.
[00:49:26] Caitlan: So as I mentioned i'm in the middle of a pivot. I do have a small practice therapy practice where I do ifs therapy. I still go to ifs weekly supervision. I love my supervisor. She's amazing You However, I'm not taking any new therapy clients, but I am taking folks for a container of one on one work using human design and whether you're an entrepreneur or a service provider Getting into more of the strategy so aligning your business to how you're designed But I still I can never get away from ifs.
[00:49:58] Caitlan: I still do [00:50:00] parts work So it's this combination of human design business strategy and parts work and people can find more information about that. I'll send you over the link i'm taking I have one more spot for november and then i'll run another Grouping of that in January. So
[00:50:18] John: yeah, so cool. Yeah, I'm just I'd love how people integrate IFS with so many different things like this It's incredible and there's not many other psych, models within psychology psychotherapy Whatever IFS is I don't really know That can be integrated into things like this and all the other different fun things that people are presenting at conferences.
[00:50:38] John: So it's really neat how you're integrating both. And it makes a lot of sense to me.
[00:50:43] Caitlan: Cool. I'm glad I landed that plane because it would be really bad if at the end of this, you're like, I'm still very confused. I don't know what you do, Caitlan. And how did you come to this? So I'm glad it, it makes sense.
[00:50:54] Caitlan: And I hope it makes some sense for listeners, but I love questions. I love talking about this stuff. [00:51:00] And. Also, I have my own podcast where people can find more information. Like I have a episode about relationships and human design. That might be interesting for folks to, yeah.
[00:51:10] John: I think what's good is that it's not human design.
[00:51:13] John: It's not overly simplistic. And I can tell there's a lot more depth and richness to it than just I'm an INFP and that's what I know and it stops there. So I can tell there's a lot more depth to this and if nothing else, it's certainly piqued a lot of people's interest today.
[00:51:27] John: So great stuff. Yeah. Thank you so much again for having me. Yeah, I'll have you back sometime. Links will be in the description for everything. And yeah, thanks again.
[00:51:37] Caitlan: Sounds great.
[00:51:37] John: Thanks for listening to another episode of going inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and share your favorite episode with a friend.
[00:51:46] John: You can follow me on Instagram, @JohnClarkeTherapy and apply to work with me one on one at JohnClarketherapy.com. See you next time.