Creativity, Reiki, and IFS with Elizabeth Scott
Creativity, Reiki, and IFS with Elizabeth Scott
In this episode of Going Inside, I sit down with Elizabeth Scott, a licensed psychotherapist, writer, and Reiki master practitioner. We explore Internal Family Systems (IFS), creativity, and Reiki, discussing how these approaches can support healing, self-connection, and self-expression. Elizabeth shares her journey of integrating IFS and Reiki in her work and personal life, revealing how creativity is both a pathway to and a result of self-energy. Tune in for a deep dive into the transformative power of creativity, the body, and energetic practices in trauma healing.
Creativity is an essential aspect of self-energy and a powerful tool for healing and self-connection.
Reiki can enhance psychotherapy by fostering calm and self-energy, helping clients better connect with their parts.
Exploring burdens from early life, like those related to productivity and worth, can unlock innate creativity and imagination.
Learn more about Elizabeth Scott at:
https://www.instagram.com/heartsighthealing
https://www.heartsighthealing.com/
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Interview Transcript:
[00:00:00] Elizabeth: When you're being creative, you're really being in a process, you're being present in a process that's imperfect and spontaneous. And so that can feel really at odds with those parts that are trying to create something. And then, like you said, maybe monetize it. But it has to do, yeah, it has to do with what we value too.
[00:00:19] Elizabeth: And if there are burdens around what is valuable and what is worth paying money for, and you can only do things if you're going to make money off of it. Then those parts would be concerned about taking that time for yourself just to do something that doesn't have, a goal or an end result.
[00:00:39] John: Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me, trauma therapist, John Clarke for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, going [00:01:00] inside is your companion on the path to healing and self discovery.
[00:01:04] John: Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one on one at johnClarketherapy. com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Elizabeth Scott is a licensed psychotherapist, writer, and Reiki master practitioner. She uses internal family systems therapy, nervous system support, and right brain experiences to empower your inner wisdom and promote whole brain healing so that you can live the life of value you deserve.
[00:01:29] John: To receive her free five day nature wellness reset, we're Or to subscribe to her newsletter, you can visit heart site, healing. com. Elizabeth, thanks for being here. Beyond that intro, what else should people know about who you are and how you got here?
[00:01:44] Elizabeth: Yeah, sure. Thank you so much for having me, John.
[00:01:46] Elizabeth: I'm really glad to be here with you. Yeah. So I have been in clinical practice for almost 15 years now. And I started at a university counseling center. There, [00:02:00] the approach that we used was psychodynamic and interpersonal and also a lot of Buddhist psychology. And so all of those things gave me this foundation of understanding that things from our past influence our present experiences.
[00:02:15] Elizabeth: And it's really about slowing down and being with what's coming up inside in a compassionate way. And. We saw a lot of trauma in our counseling center. And so I started to find that some of the talk therapy was not fully reaching some of my clients where they needed to be supported. And I read the body keeps the score vessels book.
[00:02:38] Elizabeth: And from there I learned about EMDR and IFS and did EMDR training first, but then moved on to IFS. And that really. skin and has completely changed me and the way I practice and the way I see the world. And it's history from there.
[00:02:57] John: Wow. We have an [00:03:00] there's some uncanny similarities to our clinical backgrounds and experiences.
[00:03:03] John: Literally I was trained psychodynamically and interpersonally worked at college counseling centers, had similar reached similar limits with that. And realizing I wasn't, I was comfortable enough talking to clients about their trauma, but didn't really know how to treat trauma. I went to EMDR, get an EMDR train and then eventually found IFS.
[00:03:25] John: So yeah, funny that the parallels there. I'm curious really quick on this piece of these Buddhist philosophies and even this idea of embracing suffering as part of life, going toward the pain, whereas a lot of times people come into therapy looking for tips and tricks and ways to get out of the pain or completely eliminate the anxiety, right?
[00:03:46] John: Or whatever it is. Yeah, I'd love to hear you just riff a little more on that piece and how that's, how that factors into your practice.
[00:03:54] Elizabeth: Absolutely. I think first of all, just starting with the parts, trying to get rid of the [00:04:00] pain and having a lot of appreciation for them and how they're trying to help and learning more about how long they've been doing this how they've been doing it, what are the consequences if they can't do it and just really getting an appreciation and a sense for how urgent it feels to those parts to get out of the pain.
[00:04:19] Elizabeth: And starting there and then, We also know what we resist persists. And so if we can learn more from these parts that are trying to get rid of about how maybe that hasn't been working for them or how it might be adding to or increasing polarization on the inside and just get permission to even just notice and be with what's going on, The other part and just see what happens.
[00:04:50] Elizabeth: And so often there's a little bit of softening just in that kind of allowing for a few seconds. And then more curiosity can open up from there. But [00:05:00] it's really like The experience of, I think there's an Alan Watts quote about this. Like the experience of trying to get to a positive experience is a negative experience and accepting the negative experience creates a positive experience.
[00:05:18] Elizabeth: So just the paradox of that, but yeah, creating enough safety for the felt experience of that.
[00:05:26] John: Yeah. Oftentimes. How we get to self energy is by unblending with the part that is most in pain, right? That's most activated although our a lot of times again our tendency is to turn away from that one or if we have parts that Clients come in and say I have this perfectionist part and I don't like it or I hate it or it's ruining my life Or whatever it might be or this part that likes to drink or what have you so
[00:05:53] Elizabeth: right Exactly.
[00:05:55] Elizabeth: Yeah. And so it just getting enough trust, [00:06:00] enough space just to be with it a little bit and then having that felt experience of, Oh, this is actually all this part really needs. Yeah.
[00:06:10] John: Yeah. That's really foundational to the model and the work is turning toward and being with. Is often more than enough, right?
[00:06:18] John: And we think about when we are wanting comfort or reassurance from someone, how rarely we're actually wanting answers or an explanation or something that I think a lot of people, myself included, might've gotten from our parents of, it's fine, don't worry about it. I'm sure, the kids at school will like you.
[00:06:37] John: It's but what if you don't, but you don't know that. And. Yeah, sometimes we're just wanting to like tamp down the feelings of others and I just think about parenting a lot as this parallel to How this stuff all forms and then of course these in turn these attachments These internal attachments that we have and that we're working on through IFS.[00:07:00]
[00:07:01] Elizabeth: Exactly. Yeah. And just that internal attunement and internal co regulation with our parts.
[00:07:07] John: You think about, you mentioned being trained psychodynamically and interpersonally and how I was trained was let's say. I had a client come in and for nine months she was terrified of crying because when she was a kid, she would cry and her dad would laugh at her, right?
[00:07:21] John: So of course she was terrified to cry in front of me. And so I knew a potential corrective emotional experience would be, Oh, nine months into it. She cries and we have this attunement and she's able to look up and see that I'm not laughing. In fact, I'm attuned and compassionate and with her and really honoring her tears and then asking her.
[00:07:41] John: What's that like for you right now and hoping she internalizes that right? So I'm this surrogate attachment figure trying to be the attachment figure the attachment object That's creating this corrective emotional experience,
[00:07:54] Elizabeth: right?
[00:07:55] John: Which when it works and it's really powerful It's also really intense for the therapist to be that person for you for [00:08:00] nine months And so it's part of why I love IFS so much and self can go inside and offer that corrective emotional experience like Today, not nine months from now, right?
[00:08:10] John: And I think that's such a beautiful opportunity and this kind of psychodynamic piece that is tucked into unburdening sequence being there for the part of you, the way that part needed someone to be at that time.
[00:08:23] Elizabeth: Exactly. And just knowing the knowing that starts to develop that you always have that internal resource.
[00:08:30] John: Yeah.
[00:08:31] Elizabeth: And you can start to rely on that more and more.
[00:08:34] John: That's actually who you are and that is such a relief and the paradigm shift that IFS talks about I knew we were going to talk in particular about one of your interests IFS and creativity Which I'm super interested in we've maybe touched on it here and there in the show, but not super in depth.
[00:08:49] John: So I'm curious What comes up when you think about these two topics?
[00:08:54] Elizabeth: Yeah, so I love this. This is a newer curiosity for me, [00:09:00] but I feel really excited about it. And, creativity being one of the eight C's of ourself and our self energy. And so it's, the more we heal, the more we have access to ourself and unburden our parts, the more access we have to creativity.
[00:09:19] Elizabeth: And then when we are engaging in creativity, we're automatically being with. This place in ourself, it's naturally whole and able to heal. So it's both, we have more access and when we're able to do these things, we're already with that part of ourselves. So that's really powerful.
[00:09:41] Elizabeth: And I just notice, I notice, With I've noticed with myself, I noticed with my clients, the more and more they heal, the more creative unburdening processes get or retrievals or where parts want to go or what they want to do, the more sense of possibility there is. And so you just see [00:10:00] that as you're in the process with them.
[00:10:02] John: Yeah it's one of my favorites of the eight C's. Your mic is ruffling against your hair a little bit. Oh, thanks for letting me know. Yeah. Oh, that's way better. Thank you. It's one of my favorite eight C's and I mentioned this before, but I have parts that sometimes can obscure my Creativity, whether that's as a therapist.
[00:10:21] John: And I think one of our greatest attributes can be our creativity in session and our ability to improvise and not know where we're going to go today. And and also in my actual creative life or the artistic pursuits that I have, like music and acting I know that I can have parts that jump in and either judge or criticize or afraid or whatever.
[00:10:42] John: And that makes me want to just not do it or not play drums as much. Yeah.
[00:10:46] Elizabeth: They're really good at that. Yeah. Yeah. And podcasts is very creative as well. So yeah. That's right. And I was, I'm rereading Martha Sweezy's book, IFS for shame and guilt. And [00:11:00] she talks about how it's like an inner theater experience and it is this kind of improv experience of just being with the parts and seeing what comes up and being able to flow with that.
[00:11:11] Elizabeth: And. So the unfolding of what our parts are doing and saying and how they're showing up is very creative. The whole IFS experience is very creative. That was one of the things that really drew me to it. This way of working, just the creativity inherent in the process.
[00:11:28] John: Yeah, it's, I also I train therapists and I'm really passionate about teaching and supervision and some of the themes I find is that of course early on when we're developing as therapists and when we have parts that hold anxiety about how the session's going to go or wanting to be helpful or wanting to be a good therapist, we have parts that want to plan and know how the session's going to go, right?
[00:11:49] John: And then of course you sit down and the client brings in something totally unpredictable, right? Or a trailhead takes you somewhere totally unforeseen, right? And so part of [00:12:00] becoming a good therapist is letting go of that need to know and that need to control, right? Holding, holding the handlebars more loosely.
[00:12:08] John: And when you can do that, the same with any type of art or creativity or performance You start to actually trust that you can adapt and be with and sometimes a lot of times Less is more right sometimes just being with clients in their parts and in their pain is You know as one of my martial arts instructors used to say like simple, but not easy It's like simple in theory But when we're anxious and or on the newer side of being a therapist We tend to do more or say more or to be more talkative or have parts that want to rescue, you know You
[00:12:42] Elizabeth: That's right. It's really being in the flow and creativity just emerges whether from our parts or from ourself and for the client as well.
[00:12:54] John: Yeah.
[00:12:54] Elizabeth: So yeah, it's something that emerges.
[00:12:57] John: And how do you see this playing out for you? Is [00:13:00] it, do you think mostly about creativity in terms of your clinical work?
[00:13:03] John: Do you also think about it in terms of your endeavors outside of therapy?
[00:13:06] Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. So definitely in terms of clinical work and again, just one of the gifts of IFS is feeling so much more connected to my own creativity outside of therapy. And actually fairly recently it's, it's, it was earlier this year.
[00:13:23] Elizabeth: I had a really powerful IFS session of my own where we were working with a part that was very hardworking and Kind of feeling like my worth is in my productivity and my productivity needs to get me certain results And that's what makes me worthy and it was connected to the patriarchy this is cultural patriarchy burden and we unburden that and there was a huge shift after working with that part and I also had a shamanic healing session the same week that was ended [00:14:00] up being around a similar theme and I felt so different inside after those two things.
[00:14:06] Elizabeth: It was like this lightning in my body. And I just wanted to start painting. I just wanted to start painting. And I painted before earlier in adulthood and it was fun, but also off had these parts that were like this isn't exactly how you want it to look. This is you could be better at this.
[00:14:27] Elizabeth: And that really put a damper on how fun it was for me. And so This go round, I joined this membership that gave me access to a bunch of painting classes and I just started painting and it was really just being in the flow of it, being in the process of it, the experience of it, the colors and, putting glitter on paper or the canvas and losing time, just Oh, I thought I was doing this for an hour, but actually it was three hours because It was just so fun and felt so present [00:15:00] and I had space to do that It wasn't necessarily about i'm gonna make this thing and i'm then i'm gonna do something with it.
[00:15:06] Elizabeth: It was really just fun and Realizing being in the experience of fun with creativity feels really different than parts of me that can feel like you need to have fun because that's good for you. So what's the fun thing you're going to do this weekend? So we can check that off, my manager's trying to help me have fun.
[00:15:28] Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah, so that's really powerful experience is totally shifted how. My week feels it's been really resourcing between sessions. So yeah.
[00:15:38] John: That's beautiful. Yeah. I have parts that would say okay, we've had fun now. How can we monetize this fun? Like maybe I could sell this painting.
[00:15:45] Elizabeth: Yes.
[00:15:45] Elizabeth: Everything has to be
[00:15:46] John: like a business thing or like productive, right? That, that keyword, that, that word of productive is an interesting one and a pretty loaded one. I was just working with a client this morning around these legacy burdens [00:16:00] around. Doing enough and being career, being a career success or being special.
[00:16:05] John: And he just said, no one told me. I needed to do these things. I didn't wake up and either hear that. It was just in the water, right? It's just this sense, but it's strong and it's compelling and it's polarized and you can feel that it feels Like an impulse doesn't feel quite like self
[00:16:24] Elizabeth: right
[00:16:25] John: because I was saying, you know I'm agnostic to, as a therapist, I try to be agnostic to all things.
[00:16:30] John: Meaning if someone comes in and says I'm here because I want to make a million dollars or I want to whatever, be the most successful X, Y, and Z. I have no, it's not my place to assign my values on that, but to get an idea of like, Where that's coming from right and living a life that's aligned with who you are and your values and that Hopefully there's not a part in the driver's seat.
[00:16:51] John: That is a little boy who's terrified of not being enough Right? And he's been driving the bus for 47 years or whatever and then you [00:17:00] get the million dollars and then you come back to my office and you go, Oh dear God, it wasn't enough. That little boy inside is still he's still hiding in the corner, he's still ashamed or whatever.
[00:17:10] John: Or now I've got this drinking part that comes in anytime. The little boy gets triggered. I'm just always curious, right? When people have these quote unquote high achieving parts where that comes from and often see there's woundedness in a lot of that when it feels extreme, right?
[00:17:26] John: Or when it gets to the point of someone has burned themselves out completely and is working 80 hours a week. I'm always curious about what's happening inside there.
[00:17:34] Elizabeth: Exactly. Yeah. And those parts can be very goal oriented. They're very focused on what they are producing with this productivity.
[00:17:45] Elizabeth: And When you're being creative, you're really being in a process, you're being present in a process that's imperfect and spontaneous. And so that can feel really at odds with those parts that are trying to create something. [00:18:00] And then, like you said, maybe monetize it. But it has to do, yeah, it has to do with what we value too.
[00:18:05] Elizabeth: And if there are burdens around what is valuable and what is worth paying money for, and you can only do things if you're going to make money off of it. Then those parts would be concerned about taking that time for yourself just to do something that doesn't have Yeah, you know a goal or an end result necessarily.
[00:18:25] John: Yeah, I remember I was working with a client One day and at the end of the session he said You know I'm not sure he said tonight, I think I'm either gonna like work more, put in a few extra hours or maybe play some video games. And I said which one would be harder to do? And he said, play video games, like to allow myself just to play.
[00:18:46] John: And I said, maybe do that one and see how it goes, right? Like that's way more of a trailhead, so to speak, then Just working some more and grinding right to feel like I did enough today, that's right So what happens when you just play [00:19:00] same thing for me, if I sit down on the drums I've been playing drums since I was 10 if I sit down with no objective right to just play I'm I have parts that jump in right and get activated in parts that want this to be productive, or are you going to write a song or whatever?
[00:19:17] Elizabeth: Exactly. Yeah. And so there are questions that you can ask that really help you get a sense of the trail heads and the parts that are coming up around this. Even just asking yourself, what is. That really fun thing that you would like, that you could just be in a flow with that feels like play for you.
[00:19:39] Elizabeth: And sometimes our parts won't even let us know what that would be. It's I don't know. I haven't thought about that. And then you can ask if you did know what would be the concern about that? And then you might get something like then you would do that more. And then what's the concern about that?
[00:19:56] Elizabeth: And when you hear that, then you can really hear [00:20:00] which parts are coming up around this, is it the ones who want to be productive or the inner critic or the perfectionist or another one is caretaking parts I've noticed, and this can often come up for women. I'm, I am. I'm meant to be here for you.
[00:20:20] Elizabeth: I'm meant to be taking care of my family or my partner or my friend, who's sick and there's always somebody who needs some kind of help and that's where my worth lies. And so if I took that time for myself, then there could be this guilty feeling or I'm not doing what actually makes me worthy.
[00:20:39] Elizabeth: So I would have concerns about that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:43] John: Yeah, it feels like a violation of some sorts to take time for myself or whatever and I definitely can see this burden in particular with women and caretaking parts and Yeah, I can definitely see [00:21:00] that. Yeah that playing out.
[00:21:02] Elizabeth: Yeah.
[00:21:03] John: Yeah.
[00:21:03] Elizabeth: Yeah, and then of course those parts Don't necessarily know You get that experience of being with you and your unique innate worth and essence that nobody else can ever recreate or reproduce and just the expression of that is, is so valuable.
[00:21:27] John: I think there's a lot of value in experimentation, right? So if I have a part that fears, if I do a little less for people, they won't love me anymore. I can totally get that. I can totally validate that fear. And what would it be like to test that out as an experiment or to allow self to come in and go self can offer this experiment of what if we did a little less for people this week?
[00:21:50] John: Or there's this person asking me to do this thing and I, Actually don't want to do it, but a part of me says you have to do it or else you won't matter to them What would it be like to do [00:22:00] that experiment and say I can't help you with that?
[00:22:03] Elizabeth: Yeah,
[00:22:03] John: and then just see what comes up, right? This could be a real You know enriching experiment and it could go either way and sometimes like our parts fears are Disconfirmed and the person says, oh, okay.
[00:22:15] John: No problem. That totally makes sense You have a lot on your plate on the other hand, it could go the other way and people could go Why are you banning me? Why are you not? Doing this thing for me. You've always done this thing for me.
[00:22:26] John: Right?
[00:22:26] Elizabeth: Yeah I love the idea of an experiment because that just brings in the curiosity.
[00:22:31] John: Yeah,
[00:22:31] Elizabeth: huh? What would happen if I just try that I can always go back but look if I try this just one time Yeah
[00:22:39] John: And then another piece if you want to go further is if the worst case scenario is I say No to someone and they're disappointed in me Imagine looking in the face of that person who's disappointed And just see what it would be like to be with that, or to be 1 percent more okay with that of just [00:23:00] seeing their disappointment and not taking it on as your own right of, Oh my God, now I need to leap back in and do something about it and rescue them or whatever.
[00:23:10] John: Obviously therapists, myself included, we have a lot of these parts, right? We do parts client is really in a low place and we have that lurching, we have temptation to come in and rescue or save or reassure or whatever.
[00:23:25] Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. And those parts sometimes have trouble distinguishing what's mine and what's yours.
[00:23:32] Elizabeth: They might, they have such empathy that they can almost experience your distress in our bodies. And then we're responding to the distress that's showing up in our bodies and responding to that. And. Yeah, just sitting with oh, that's their disappointment. That's in their sphere, I'm right here in mine You know, that's
[00:23:51] John: huge.
[00:23:51] John: Yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about this piece of your bio Around Reiki and even this piece of that's yours. This is mine. Yeah [00:24:00] I learned the hard way of taking people's stuff on and especially doing this work, and especially doing trauma work, very intense, there's a lot of energy there and So as a a reactive move, I originally got, I got trained in Reiki, went through Reiki one, I'm now a Reiki level two practitioner.
[00:24:18] John: I've still am figuring out how to place it or where to place it in the role and identity as a therapist, or even it's not really my bio, but it's something I'm talking about more and have a lot of. Interest and passion for us. I'm curious how you came to it and what Reiki means to you and how you make sense of it as a therapist.
[00:24:36] Elizabeth: Yeah. Thank you for asking me that. And I feel like this is a really good connection with this conversation about creativity, because just the creativity to integrate practices that could all be helpful. So I first got attuned to Reiki. Six years ago. And it's funny because I think one of my caretaking parts wanted me to do it.
[00:24:59] Elizabeth: Cause this [00:25:00] part was like, Oh, you can give Reiki to these people, people in your life, give them, they didn't ask for it, you can give it to them. And then as I started using it with myself which was what I learned, Reiki one was really about. It's filling your cup that sort of settled and I started to experience just shifts in myself of receiving.
[00:25:21] Elizabeth: That kind of clearing and tuning into the Reiki energy and Reiki really feels to me like the bigger self, the more universal self. If we're, If it's the particle and the wave and we're the particle, we're just tuning into the wave and it just, it feels supportive of connecting with our own self energy to me.
[00:25:43] Elizabeth: And but yes, it's something that I use a lot with myself, clearing my own energy between sessions and being able to distinguish. It, it's been a practice. Like I did not start out being able to distinguish this, [00:26:00] but, have I taken on something of theirs versus what does it feel like when I'm in my energy and it's clear.
[00:26:05] Elizabeth: And I use Reiki with that a lot. But I'm actually currently in a training right now in integrating reiki in the psychotherapy. And it, it aligns so well with IFS because you can really. you can really use Reiki with a body scan or just using it to essentially help somebody befriend a part.
[00:26:28] Elizabeth: If you're noticing a sensation and you have consent from all parts, sending Reiki to the area of that sensation and just having that support noticing color, size, shape, texture, those sorts of things. And if it connects us more to our own self energy, then we might have more access to curiosity about, Oh, what do I want to ask this part?
[00:26:51] Elizabeth: What does it want me to know? There just might be a little more space for that. But yeah I it's been really powerful just in my own [00:27:00] personal practice to integrate the two. And there, there are therapists that I've come into contact with that we've been talking about the idea of Reiki assisted.
[00:27:12] Elizabeth: psychotherapy. So Reiki is not the clinical intervention, but if it increases calm or reduces stress, which studies show that it does, then it's a good way to do it. That can support your body having more access to self energy, which can support your healing process and the trauma processing, which is the clinical intervention.
[00:27:35] Elizabeth: So that's how I'm seeing it.
[00:27:38] John: Yeah that's wonderful. I'm not too far off in, in seeing it that way. And the more I do this work, as I expand my definitions of self energy Reiki is a handy comparison. And so thinking about What we're channeling with Reiki this chi or life force or universal [00:28:00] here healing energy I think about that and visualize that quite a bit as I'm working with clients a lot of clients already feel Myself included very somatically, right?
[00:28:11] John: So you have a sense of how much self energy you have right even thinking about a person in your life And imagining them and thinking about what's happening in your body as you think about them, right? Am I tight closed off wanting to do this and do I feel warm open expansiveness this heat in my chest, right?
[00:28:28] John: Yeah, or can I practice generating this openness this warmth in my chest and then emanating that out to them and just see what? That's yeah, we also we're learning more about the chakra systems through my Levels one and two Reiki trainings. And so I think about that a lot too. And sometimes I'll just help clients tune into their energy as a place to, as a starting point, seeing like where we're at today, right?
[00:28:53] John: It's a way to keep their work safe, right? We're always checking for self energy and I think we can check for it. [00:29:00] We can generate it by having parts on blend. We can also just generate it straight up. By making it a practice, right? And tuning in and imagining, inviting this healing energy into my body, into my energy field, and then sending that to a part of me that needs it, to someone else who's suffering, just out into the world, maybe using it to establish a barrier between me and others, right?
[00:29:27] John: That's it. Let's in the good stuff, but not the bad stuff or whatever it might be. Therapists can and probably should do a lot more of this kind of boundary work, quote unquote that word can mean a lot of things. So I just see the sky's the limit in terms of those applications. And really like for me people's experience of self and self energy is, and should be unique to them.
[00:29:46] John: So if part of how I experienced it and think of it is qE or Life Force or whatever. Or if some people, it's like the Holy Spirit in them. Yeah. I think we should use that example and leverage that. And really, I think the whole [00:30:00] thing is love. I think the whole model like Yeah. The whole model of IFS is basically love.
[00:30:05] Elizabeth: I totally, it's packaged
[00:30:06] John: really well and really strategically for people like the APA to give it the thumbs up So yeah for clients to get it of like I come in just getting to know this perfectionist part Like why would I want to love that perfectionist part? That's right. Some real hippie nonsense
[00:30:22] Elizabeth: Hippie nonsense, but that works really well evidence based Yeah,
[00:30:27] John: exactly.
[00:30:27] John: Yeah.
[00:30:29] Elizabeth: Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. Or, and like you said, meeting people where they are, they might have that experience of just feeling really connected with nature in the natural world and kind of imagining receiving that energy from a place where you felt that connection. And then you, through your imagination, this is the creativity too.
[00:30:51] Elizabeth: You feel that in your body and then your body is physiologically responding to that imagined experience, but [00:31:00] you're experiencing it on the inside So it might not be happening around you in the material world right now, but you are having that experience So
[00:31:08] John: Yeah. Yeah, we a lot of times when we're with parts, especially exiles There's something to check for also is do we have an agenda with that part versus what would it be?
[00:31:19] John: Especially for part That's really stuck and frozen or if you encounter an exile that the client says well like he won't turn and even look at me how are you feeling toward him? Good, but he won't turn and look at me. What would it be like just to send him? A little bit of love right from across the room with no agenda about that, right?
[00:31:40] John: That just that being with right it's often to your point early on, like enough or more than enough, or what if that's all we quote unquote accomplished today in this session, maybe that would be. More than enough and although sometimes we struggle with that at first because it doesn't feel like an offer I want to go and save this little [00:32:00] boy Let me just hang out in the same room with him and practice generating like this energy and in your heart and See how that goes,
[00:32:08] Elizabeth: right?
[00:32:09] Elizabeth: That's right It's because you can if you can feel that kind of softness in your heart You can imagine sending that from your heart like an energy towards that part And sometimes people see it as sending light or something like that. But yeah. And then the part might feel there is something behind me and they start to peek around cause they feel that.
[00:32:31] Elizabeth: Yeah.
[00:32:32] John: We've got Yeah. 10 minutes or so left. What do you feel is missing from the conversation? What else are you, what else is really important to you and your practice and your life that you want to share?
[00:32:43] Elizabeth: I think I wanted to make sure I mentioned on the topic of creativity, the idea of burdens that we take on in school and how that can impact us.
[00:32:56] Elizabeth: And I don't know if you have, you heard about, are you [00:33:00] familiar with the George lands? Genius study with NASA. No. Okay. So I, this is floating around in a few places and I encountered it this summer and it felt really powerful. So NASA contracted George land in 1968 to develop a measure to determine who would be a good prospect to be a rocket scientist, genius for NASA.
[00:33:25] Elizabeth: They wanted like early flagging. And so he developed this measure. And then got curious about it and wondered, is this an innate trait? Is it something that's learned in school? When does this come online? And so he created this longitudinal study and started with four to five year olds and found that 98 percent of four to five year olds Are registered as creative geniuses and by that he meant the genius category of imagination.
[00:33:58] Elizabeth: And so five years later, he [00:34:00] came back and only 30 percent registered as creative geniuses. And then five years later, only 12 percent registered as creative geniuses. And then he said they stopped the study because they were all depressed by that. Takeaway was. The way we're taught to learn in school is very much about evaluating, testing, finding facts, this convergent thinking.
[00:34:29] Elizabeth: Whereas what registered as genius was this kind of innovative, out of the box thinking that comes with our imagination. And That just feels so important because not that we don't need this other type of thinking or this other type of being able to evaluate or refine or reflect but Not only do our ourselves innately have creativity but our young child parts Are so naturally creative and they have these creative gifts and imagination and sense of possibility and learn to [00:35:00] do things another way, but when we can connect with them and unburden them, then we have all of these creative gifts that we can reclaim for our system that's been available to us.
[00:35:11] Elizabeth: And I just think about what would it be like if more people had more access to our creativity, it feels really important.
[00:35:20] John: Yeah we could do a whole episode about this. In fact, at some point maybe we should I have a lot, I have a lot of thoughts about it and a lot of personal experience around this and that.
[00:35:30] John: From in my experience of the public education system where I grew up did way more damage than good for me and it took me decades to find my light again and Discover my intellect and my capacity and my creativity Because the school system just damn near snuffed it out And I was I was Never a kid that could memorize facts or remember things or stay organized and spit out information that we learned six [00:36:00] days ago.
[00:36:00] John: And then I would turn over and this kid beside me could precisely do that really well. And so he excelled. And so you look over and you go he must be smart and I must be. Be not smart, right? It's like pretty obvious takeaway as a kid when you're looking around or going I had this teacher who used to get mad at me, like in class, I couldn't get these concepts as a computer science class.
[00:36:23] John: And I remember I would be terrified and I would ask a question and he would come over. And already be annoyed and I could sense that and then I would ask the question and he would like huff and puff and Be like, ah, and making these sounds and stuff and it's like I can only tell you how damaging that was I'm already mortified that I don't get it And now I'm mortified that this adult is twice my size is like annoyed that I don't get it and other kids get it why don't I get it? So I It was just all around really damaging for me. Yeah.
[00:36:57] Elizabeth: That's awful. That's awful. And yeah, of [00:37:00] course we take on burdens from that. And then also your prefrontal cortex goes off the line because you're really stressed out and can't take in new information. So yeah, it's so funny as I was preparing to talk to you And I was just thinking about, I was connecting with protective parts that come up around creativity.
[00:37:22] Elizabeth: And, our inner critics can sometimes mirror or take on what our teacher said to us. And I had a teacher in ninth grade, an English teacher. And he was giving papers back and he made these remarks about my paper in front of the whole class. He didn't say my name, but he made the remarks and then handed the paper to me.
[00:37:43] Elizabeth: But he said, some people really know how to write well, but they don't have anything to say. And he wrote something to the effect of that on the top of the paper too. And it was, [00:38:00] devastating. And it's so funny because as I was planning for a conversation, I heard this part that was like, what if you don't have anything to say?
[00:38:07] John: Yeah.
[00:38:08] Elizabeth: And it was that part. It was that part that took that on. And so I'm so glad I noticed that and I could be without those things really lands. And then of course your parts are shutting you down. Don't share anything with anybody that's going to get blasted.
[00:38:23] John: It's a really powerful example of how our parts take on burdens in these moments.
[00:38:28] John: That, uh, once we discover these moments or these moments in therapy you realize the impact of that and can go in and yeah, be with that little girl and sit beside her at that desk when she gets that paper back and everyone can tell it was her paper. Yeah.
[00:38:43] John: Such an illustrative moment. And, uh, so much of like. How we prove our value is by knowing a lot and sharing a lot or being smart or being really productive or making a lot of money, whatever it is. And so it's what if all we did in [00:39:00] this podcast interview is get to know a little bit more like who you are or what if people through this interview got a sense of who I am or like what it would be like to be me.
[00:39:09] John: Be with me or to be my client, would that be enough or would that be more than enough? And that could liberate your ease. Some parts who also want to like, make sure I say something here, right? Cause I have those parts too. And to your point earlier, being turning on this microphone every week can be, and has been really activating for parts at times.
[00:39:29] John: And when I started this podcast, I had all sorts of stuff come up like that and being seen. And do I know anything? Am I imposter? All that stuff comes up. And then every now and then I, Get an email from a listener at least once a week and someone was like, Hey, I just really appreciate you doing this show or interviewing interesting people or like this one thing you said, or this one thing they said, or just like your general, again, who you are.
[00:39:54] John: I'm hearing that kind of more and more. It's so that, that helps soften some parts for me too. Of maybe this thing, [00:40:00] maybe life isn't a performance after all.
[00:40:01] Elizabeth: Yeah, that's right. That's such a relief, if that is not the case. Yeah, absolutely. It is really just being with yourself and if your parts can give you enough space, yeah, then you can just connect.
[00:40:15] John: Yeah, and if they won't we can go toward those parts and get to know Why they're hesitant to give me some space here
[00:40:22] Elizabeth: Yeah, exactly podcast
[00:40:24] John: interview or this session with a client or a speaking opportunity Whatever it is anything a hard conversation with a partner friend,
[00:40:32] Elizabeth: right? And they're all trailheads to get to know yourself and then have more love for yourself so every time you Stretch and expand you have an opportunity to meet yourself in a deeper level and have an even bigger opening
[00:40:47] John: Yeah, it's a really good way of putting it in thinking about how do we communicate to clients what therapy is or what IFS is that's a really good summary right there.
[00:40:56] John: You should. Probably quote yourself on that somewhere.
[00:40:59] Elizabeth: I don't know what I just [00:41:00] said
[00:41:03] John: Elizabeth so much for doing this Anything that you can share with us in terms of who you help and how you help them? And of course how people can get in touch if they're interested in working with you
[00:41:17] Elizabeth: Sure, absolutely.
[00:41:19] Elizabeth: So I am licensed in the state of Maryland. I work with adults relational trauma, depression, anxiety. I love helping people with relationship issues by taking a U turn and working with their own individual systems, so they can show up in a way that's helpful to their partnership. I work with a lot of Empathics, highly sensitive sorts of people and young women and issues and experiences around being a woman.
[00:41:49] Elizabeth: Yep. And yeah, mobile, I'm on Instagram and you can visit my website and that's a great way to reach out and get in touch.
[00:41:57] John: Great. We'll put links to your [00:42:00] stuff in the description, of course, for folks that are interested in your work and following along or reaching out. And yeah I just want to thank you again for being here and offering us your time and your story and yeah,
[00:42:12] Elizabeth: again.
[00:42:14] Elizabeth: It was a pleasure. Yeah.
[00:42:15] John: Keep in touch.
[00:42:17] Elizabeth: Okay. Thanks.
[00:42:19] John: Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, @JohnClarkeTherapy and apply to work with me one on one at JohnClarkeTherapy.com. See you next time.