Answering Your IFS Questions with Monica Cavalcante
Answering Your IFS Questions with Monica Cavalcante
In this impromptu consultation with Monica Cavalcante, I answer her questions about incorporating Internal Family Systems (IFS) into therapeutic practice. We explore essential topics, including how to introduce IFS to clients, the nuances of self and self-energy, and navigating clients' intuitive responses during sessions.
If you’re a therapist curious about integrating IFS into your work, this episode is filled with insights and practical tips to enhance your practice. For those who are not therapists but are interested in understanding more about IFS and its transformative potential for self-exploration and healing, this episode offers valuable insights that can enhance your healing journey.
Key Takeaways:
Personalized Understanding of Self-Energy
Encourage clients to define their concept of self and self-energy in ways that resonate with their beliefs and experiences, fostering a deeper connection to their healing journey.
Honoring Intuition in Therapy
Be mindful of the client's intuition throughout the therapeutic process, ensuring that they feel safe and empowered to voice any discomfort with the IFS approach.
The Therapist’s Role
Acknowledge the inherent power dynamics in therapy, and strive to foster an environment where clients feel free to express their needs and boundaries.
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Interview Transcript:
[00:00:00] John: Most therapists would say, of course, I'm person centered and humanistic. And these are, this is part of the foundation of which psychotherapy was built on. In IFS, the respect and reverence for the client and their system and for their self, their core self is kind of the highest regard. It's, it's the kind of, in my regard, In my opinion, the pinnacle of the model.
[00:00:28] John: Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me, trauma therapist John Clarke, for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, Going Inside is your companion on the path to healing and self discovery.
[00:00:53] John: Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one on one at johnClarketherapy. com. Thanks for being [00:01:00] here. Let's dive in. All right. I'm excited to introduce my guest for today. Monica is a clinical social work supervisee in Northern Virginia. So she's a clinician and she reached out to me and had some questions about IFS and applying the model.
[00:01:16] John: And so I offered to do some kind of impromptu consultation here to talk about Monica's work and using the model and getting started with it. So that's about as much as we know so far. And we're just going to see where this takes us. So Monica, thanks for doing this and. Yeah, let's start with your first question.
[00:01:34] Monica: Yeah. So thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here. Yeah. So yeah, so I actually came across IFS because of you. I was researching about trauma as I work with a lot of clients with trauma and I came across your podcast. And in this podcast, you were talking so highly about IFS.
[00:01:57] Monica: And I was like, what is IFS about? [00:02:00] And I listened to your entire podcast. I can't recall which one it was because I know you have a lot of podcasts about IFS. And I listened to the entire podcast and you said that IFS has actually transformed your practice and not, not only for your clients, but for yourself as a, as, as a clinician.
[00:02:21] Monica: And I was like, well, I need to learn about this, right? Right. Thanks. So I started reading books on IFS articles on IFS more and more podcasts and, and demos. And I was just, you know, when something clicks makes sense. I was like, this makes sense. And then I learned about the whole training process until a couple months ago, he was through the lottery and now they changed.
[00:02:49] Monica: But I've been waiting. I've been applying nothing. So as I was studying and learning more about it I was like, Why not bring this to my [00:03:00] clients? Right? And then I came across that question, the ethical question, you know, can I do IFS an IFS session if I'm not trained, but there was a part of me that felt confident to bring this to the client is to give them the option.
[00:03:15] Monica: I'm always very Honest and transparent about where I am and if the clients are willing to do what we call IFS session. And I started doing it and it was just so amazing what I was seeing. and how much clients were being helped by the process. So I think something that I would like to know from you is what are your thoughts on practicing IFS if you were not officially IFS trained?
[00:03:44] John: Yeah, it's, it's a wonderful question and it actually lends itself well to the model itself because the model is a lot about respect and humility and When I was a graduate student, I was taught [00:04:00] in the mode of Carl Rogers to act like you're not from around here when you're getting to know a client and their life and their inner world.
[00:04:08] John: And that means the client is by default, the expert in their life. They might be lost or depressed or deep in addiction or whatever it is, but the idea that when a client is unconditionally positively regarded and supported, we can lead them to their own answers. So it's not a matter of client is coming to the therapist for answers or for the therapist answers or the therapist's truth, but we're helping clients access their own truth.
[00:04:40] John: So you can see how even those principles of working person centered, which most therapists would say, of course, I'm person centered and humanistic. And these are, this is part of the foundation of which psychotherapy was built on. In IFS, the respect and reverence for the client and their system. And. And [00:05:00] for their self, their core self is kind of the highest regard.
[00:05:05] John: It's it's the kind of, in my regard, in my opinion, the pinnacle of the model. So how do you start to use the model in a way that keeps it safe? Number one, with any model. or technique for that matter. I always tell the clinicians at my, my trauma practice that I supervise is to never forget you're a clinician first.
[00:05:28] John: So a lot of times when we're learning a new model or something like EMDR, for instance, clinicians will get lost or stuck, or the client will start getting activated and they'll be looking down at the model or at the, the, you know, the protocol or the handout or the notebook or whatever, trying to find their place or what to do next.
[00:05:45] John: They've forgotten that they're a clinician. Same thing applies for IFS in my experience. If you go into someone's system with humility and respect, and you also know that you are a relationship [00:06:00] expert at the end of the day even being new to IFS, you understand relationships. It's the core of what we do as therapists.
[00:06:08] John: So imagine for a second that you have two people come into your office and one person really scared and really frozen. Maybe it's a child, maybe it's really, really young. And the other person in the room is there to help this child, or you're there to help that person help this child. You know exactly what to do, right?
[00:06:33] John: Right. So that's how I would even kind of visualize what we're doing when we're doing this this parts work. A lot of it is getting to know parts, which is kind of the starting point of as you go inside and let's say a common starting point is getting to know this really critical Protector part this inner critic that most of us have and instead of just Kind of learning to ignore it or deep breathe or [00:07:00] pretend that it's not there or just practice mindfulness of noticing it What if you were to turn toward it and make it aware of you and get to know it and start?
[00:07:10] John: Some dialogue with that part And we call that insight work in IFS. And so what we're doing then is if they can turn toward that part, make it aware of you and check in, how are you feeling toward that part? So you're always checking for self energy. If a client says, Oh, I'm feeling good or curious, or I feel sad for the part.
[00:07:27] John: Oh, sad, like empathy. Yeah. Sad, like, like empathy. Like I can see. Just how misunderstood this part is. Okay, send that to the part and see what happens. So we're just making it relational. And so two ways that we keep the work safe is number one, we go in with this humility and we always work with protectors first.
[00:07:47] John: And number two, we're constantly checking for self energy in the client and in our own systems. But if we go in and the client has a sufficient degree of self energy and they just need a degree of it, not a hundred percent. Right. None of us are in it [00:08:00] a hundred percent. Then that gives me the green light that we can keep moving forward with, with the work or with this session.
[00:08:07] John: Right. And we just want to see what it's like for them to start relating. Yeah. to their parts and see what it's like for us at the same time to have clients doing this work that is very much between client and their parts and less about client and, and therapists.
[00:08:24] Monica: Wow. That's a great answer. Thank you.
[00:08:25] Monica: It gives me a lot of insight about. The work there already do, but also, you know, wanting to continue to keep searching more knowledge and having more confidence in doing the work. And I love the part that you, you talk about humility. That's a very, I never heard, you know, anyone talk about this approach with humility before.
[00:08:49] Monica: So I appreciate that because it's something that's very needed in this work. Yeah,
[00:08:54] John: yeah. Yeah. That part of the paradigm shift that IFS talks about is [00:09:00] it's a non pathologizing approach, right? So if someone is experiencing depression, we would say they have a depressed part, right? Or a part that is carrying depression or whatever it might be.
[00:09:11] John: Same thing for our, for our addictive parts, parts that like to drink, parts that like to smoke, whatever it might be. And so it's a very non pathologizing and de shaming stance to take when regarding a client, when regarding humanity I think that's part of why it really attracts people and it clicks with people.
[00:09:31] John: So instinctively as a therapist, cause it's such a it, it honors the client, and it honors humanity in a way that a lot of models. Don't and also you as you probably notice for your own clients when you invite them to get to know that part of them It just instinctively makes sense, right? Clients are already talking about themselves in parts.
[00:09:50] John: And so we're just building off of that Right. That's another reason why it feels so natural just to start doing it right and bringing curiosity and bringing basic therapist [00:10:00] questions To parts work. There's a million parts models IFS is just my favorite. I think the best and most comprehensive and most respectful.
[00:10:09] John: But there's a lot of ways just to start working with parts and getting to know them. For some people, you know, if they learn some gestalt therapy, they might work with the empty chair technique and say, okay, invite this part to sit in the chair beside you and just create that interaction or doing some psycho drama with it.
[00:10:27] John: So there's a lot of ways that, Therapists are already kind of doing parts work, but in IFS, part of what makes it unique is this insight work where the client is going inside, which might mean closing their eyes, but just having this internal focus, and then walking through the six F's, which are a crucial part of starting to use the model.
[00:10:47] John: And I would recommend having those six F's like written down on a piece of paper as you're learning the model, because that's really where you start With any IFS session in my experience, [00:11:00] one of the F's that people tend to leave out or skip past is the fleshing out part. The, the, the fleshing out F.
[00:11:07] John: And so what that does is number one, it gives the client an even clearer image or felt sense of what the part is or who the part is or what it looks like, or how old is it? Where is it located in or around my body? So that's helping them strengthen self depart connection. It's also helping therapists get a clear idea of this part, because what happens is all of a sudden we're getting to know this part and then another one pops in.
[00:11:33] John: And so we can bring similar questions to that other part so that both of us are clear on kind of like who's here, right. And who's in the room all of a sudden. I always recommend keeping notes during the session. And when you encounter a new part, I would just. Write it down on a piece of paper with a big circle around it.
[00:11:52] John: And if it helps you to identify whether it's, you think it's a protector part or an exile, then, then you can certainly do that, but [00:12:00] that helps maintain some sort of visual as to, you know, who you're working with. Right. And it helps the clients too.
[00:12:06] Monica: Yeah. That was actually a question that I have for you, so I appreciate you touching on that.
[00:12:11] Monica: Yeah. I think it's still, I'm sorry, I want to go back a little bit to the empathy, to the the part that you talked about having this humility, right? How do you, how do you work with your own feelings, your your empathy levels with the clients. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because there was a particular session that I felt myself becoming very emotional about because it was beautiful to just watch and witness what I was witnessing.
[00:12:42] Monica: And the client had her, you know, their eyes closed. And sometimes, you know, I mean, my own world, sometimes I close my eyes sometimes, you know, I have my eyes open and I, and I could feel the tears coming up and you know, the client did not see it but [00:13:00] then. I was, it took me a good few hours for me to sort of recover from that session, but not in a bad way, but in a good way, because it was so beautiful.
[00:13:10] Monica: And I was just like, wow, you know, like she did not expect that. Nobody expects anything because we never know what's going to happen. Right. And I have that session. So how do you, deal with your own feelings and perhaps counter transference, you know, with, with clients and I've had questions.
[00:13:29] John: Well, I was trained psychodynamically.
[00:13:31] John: And so we were taught to use words like transference and counter transference, which in IFS terms, it just means a part of me is activated or resonating with one of their parts. With the client's parts that can, we can have positive transference. We can have negative transference, right? In this case, it sounds like you're experiencing some, some positive transference, right?
[00:13:51] Monica: Right.
[00:13:52] John: To back up a second. What I'm constantly doing in my own system and helping the people that I teach do is [00:14:00] the felt sense of Being itself versus being in a part, right? So for instance if I have a client that's really stuck in Session or really flooded and I have a part that is having a hard time with that or feels the need to Rescue or swoop in and save the day or to hurry them along or Reassure them that it's gonna be okay.
[00:14:25] John: That's an agenda, right? Parts have an agenda self does not Self can simply be with and tune into exactly what's happening without need to change anything or to rescue anyone, right? So that's the first thing I would do is as if I were you and I'm in that moment and I'm really resonating With the beautiful work that's happening here I would just let that happen and i'd be checking in with my own system In particular my somatic sense of what's happening in my body,
[00:14:53] Monica: right.
[00:14:54] John: Self tends to feel somatically open Expansive relaxed you might [00:15:00] have a warmth in your belly and openness in your chest You might have tenderness in your face behind your eyes. And so you might have just been really resonating You know and in a lot of your own self energy with that client You might also at the same time have had parts that were really resonating with the client or their pain or could relate to it Something an IFS therapist might do that most therapists won't do especially psychodynamic therapists is name their own parts, right?
[00:15:30] John: so It could be appropriate at some point to say I had a part that was really resonating with your pain or resonating with that little girl or whatever. And number one, your part's like that because now they're getting attention and they're, they're at less risk of being exiled.
[00:15:46] Monica: Yeah,
[00:15:47] John: by being a therapist and clients like it too because they see your humility and they see that you have parts and you're Demonstrating what it's like to just name them.
[00:15:55] Monica: Mm hmm,
[00:15:56] John: right? Let's say a client gives you difficult feedback or is not happy with the [00:16:00] way therapy is going Right, you might that's another great chance to name your parts, right? If you have parts that hold different perspectives, like I have a part that is struggling with this or part that really wants to Make sure that I'm doing a therapy here and another part that is is it completely understands your feedback and wants to work with you.
[00:16:21] John: So,
[00:16:22] Monica: yeah. Yeah. Wonderful.
[00:16:26] John: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Monica: I have another question. Sorry. I'm going to cut some parts, right?
[00:16:31] John: Maybe. Yeah. For now. We're just going to keep rolling.
[00:16:33] Monica: Okay.
[00:16:33] John: Okay.
[00:16:35] Monica: So what is, you know, I know you've been doing IFS for, for a while what is something that you have noticed throughout the years doing this work?
[00:16:47] Monica: What is something you would tell a clinician who is just starting with IFS? Something that you learned? You know, throughout many years and perhaps to make it easier for some [00:17:00] folks. What is something that you would say go do this or don't do this? Yeah, I'm curious about that.
[00:17:06] John: It's a great question.
[00:17:07] John: You're really spoiling me with questions here, which I love. It's,
[00:17:11] Monica: I came prepared.
[00:17:12] John: It's fun being on the other side of the microphone. I have to admit out of all the folks I've interviewed and the demos I've done, you know, just being on the other side is, is fun. What I would say, and this is something that Frank Anderson, who's well known in the IFS world and I did some training with in Sedona he urged everyone at this training to go slower than you think you should.
[00:17:35] John: And I think that's absolutely true. And so something I've learned in part from through my errors in IFS work is going too fast. 99 percent of what I do is trauma work and working with trauma clients. And so a lot of times for trauma clients in particular, they have parts that have a high degree of urgency about getting better and about healing.
[00:17:56] John: Understandably so. And you think about it from an exile perspective, it's like you have [00:18:00] parts that have been, you know, beaten and locked in the basement for 30 years of, of course they are desperate for this work and this healing, right. And this unburdening. And so on one hand sometimes the work. can naturally go pretty quick and you go into someone's system and their protectors are softened or permissive or kind of letting us go in and do the work or letting us go right there to an exile and there might be a beautiful unburdening that happens in the first session or the third session or whenever.
[00:18:33] John: On the other hand, that's not what most IFS work looks like or I think should look like. I also have to say, you know, I'm guilty of perpetuating this because of some of the demos I've done on this channel where people come in and we're doing an unburdening the first time I've ever met them. I think something that that has to do with is number one, people that, have volunteered for these demos or that would volunteer for a demo like at a therapy training like an IFS training.
[00:18:59] John: They're often [00:19:00] therapists. They have a good sense of their parts. They've been doing healing work for decades already. They have a great degree of self energy. They know the model and they've read the book. No bad parts or they've read the books. They've listened to the podcast and so they might come in and they're kind of on the fast track to an unburdening and unburdening is by no means like the goal of IFS, but it is, in my opinion, one of the most potent.
[00:19:25] John: Aspects of the model. So that's the part that people seem to like see a lot and think well That's that's ifs and that's kind of the goal is to get parts unburdened what I would say is for folks that are Newer to the model is is just that again. Just go slower go slower than you think you should And check meticulously with protectors every step of the way, even if you've checked, check again, right before you're about to do an unburning, check again, right before, right as you meet an exile, check again with any protector parts and have the client just ask inside, [00:20:00] ask, are there any parts that have issue?
[00:20:02] John: or concerns or fears about what we're doing here, getting to know this little one, that's, that's another way to keep the work safe. Beyond that, we have to go slow so we can integrate the work. So if there is a really nice unburdening that happens, we have to follow up with that part and keep coming back to it and make sure that the part is still unburdened or that it didn't snap back to that stuck frozen place it was in, or back to that, abusive situation that we found it in.
[00:20:29] John: So yeah, going slow is, is key, right? Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
[00:20:35] Monica: Yeah, I like that. And when I think about, you know how long we have to do an IFS session which is about 60 minutes, right? And sometimes when I talk to clients and they're willing to, you know, to see what an IFS session is about I let them know, please let me know as soon as you walk in here, that's what you want to do.
[00:20:57] Monica: So we have enough time because [00:21:00] sometimes the part. You know, needs more time and that's right. 60 minutes. Sometimes it's not enough. You know, I've had to go a little bit over a few times, but it's something that I try not to do because of, you know, Next client. So we want to be respectful of that. But. I think getting to know the clients that's usually what I do.
[00:21:24] Monica: I don't feel comfortable talking about IFS the first time I see a client or even the second. I usually offer for clients that I have been seeing for a while that I know a little bit about and that I know would benefit. from from IFS
[00:21:42] John: Yeah, I I think that's great and the managing the clock is actually Something really important to talk about and it's the same with emdr If you're looking at the clock and you've got 10 minutes left and let's say you're pretty deep working with the part Let's say it is an exile and maybe [00:22:00] you've even naturally started the unburdening Process or you're starting to have the client's self go in and witness this part in their Stuckness or in the moment that the abuse happened or whatever You have to really be a diligent and be looking at the clock and thinking.
[00:22:18] John: Okay, what's realistic to get done in the next 10 minutes? Because if you you've already started, excuse me started that process of unburdening You might just want to slow down and have the client see what it's like to just keep being with this part today The being with is a very potent aspect of the model and is probably overlooked because we're often so eager to just like get to the good stuff or get to these epic unburdenings.
[00:22:49] John: What's it like just to meet this part and be in the same room as them today? Again, especially if it's an exile and especially if your client has a trauma history. Can you just hang out in that same room or on the other side of [00:23:00] the room or sit? On the edge of the bed with that part and just see what it's like to be together.
[00:23:05] John: Yeah, that could be all the part needs in order to unburden. That could be the unburdening for all we know. So I think in a lot of ways, less is more and we go really slow and we just kind of take what the system is giving us. The whole thing is about unmet needs, right? And again, therapists know a lot about unmet needs.
[00:23:23] John: They know a lot about attachment. Use this information to think about how you're kind of going about this work, right? For a lot of therapists who are also parents, you have an idea of what a little kid needs. When they're terrified, when they've been bullied, right. When they are sick. So if you can embody that energy and help the client embody that energy, to me, that's really also like the core of the model.
[00:23:52] Monica: Right. Well, I love that. I think there is a part of me that feels a little bit relieved. I think what I'm hearing is say is that [00:24:00] you, we don't necessarily, depending on, on the client, depending on what's happening in the session. Right. We don't necessarily need to do the step by step and do the, you know but sometimes just the client being there with the part, you know, can be enough for that day.
[00:24:19] Monica: And then another session, you would. Continue. Is that what you would do?
[00:24:24] John: That might be a good way to, to, to, you know, tie the sessions together is to start, Hey, last, last session we left off with this little one. He was in the room and he was sitting on his bed and you were sitting on the foot of the bed.
[00:24:38] John: What would it be like to go and just check in with that part as a starting point? Does that does that feel right? And we can see how that goes Right and the part might still be there He might still be really scared or maybe the client says i've been checking in with him every day And he's actually better now or he left that room and he went outside to play and I went with him and he changed his clothes and he looks [00:25:00] Happy now, he's smiling now Okay, great.
[00:25:03] John: Can can you be there with him? As he's outside and smiling and see what else he might need. The, the good thing about this whole model is if the, again, if the client has enough self energy, you can really, you can and should default to the client. Right? So rather than the therapist having to constantly know what to do or what question to ask next, or where to go with the protocol itself when the client has sufficient self energy, you can ask the client check in and see if you get a sense of where to go from here.
[00:25:35] John: Whether it's the start of the session or you're halfway through the session or let's say the session gets stalled out and you get really stuck and you've got a really angry pissed off protector and you've Got an exile and you've got a critical part over here and an addictive part over here and they're all in the room You can just default to the client if they have enough self energy See if you can just slow down and get a sense for what needs to happen here and the client will [00:26:00] go Okay, let me check.
[00:26:03] John: Let me go. Actually, I, I need to turn and work with the piss off protector one. Okay. So go ahead and do that. And some options for doing that would be, you can work with it right here with the others watching. You could bring the protector to another room and the others might watch from another room or through a monitor or whatever it might be.
[00:26:21] John: You can ask the piss off protector what it is. So that's a beautiful thing that takes a lot of pressure off the therapist to always be knowing what to do next.
[00:26:29] Monica: Yeah. I love that. I love that.
[00:26:31] John: Do
[00:26:33] Monica: I keep going with questions?
[00:26:35] John: Yeah. What else would be helpful? We got maybe like five more minutes left.
[00:26:39] John: Let me know. What else is coming to mind?
[00:26:41] Monica: Okay. So I think I really would like to ask this question. Have you encountered situations where clients think it's weird. The idea of talking to a part and that kind of like collides with their [00:27:00] faith. Thinking, oh, this is not aligned with, you know my faith, with, with my religious views.
[00:27:07] Monica: Have you encountered that and what are your thoughts on this?
[00:27:11] John: Yeah, this is a fantastic question. The first thing I would say is. I offer everything to my clients with an open hand, meaning this is just an idea or just something I'm offering today, whether it's doing a meditation or back when I used to do clinical hypnosis, it's like, that's just a thing I'm offering with an open hand and let them get a sense of, is that a yes or a no intuitively for them?
[00:27:37] Monica: Like, does that feel right for me?
[00:27:39] John: Does that feel right for me? In terms of getting to know your parts, I I think it is weird. I think the whole thing is weird and bizarre when you realize, Oh my goodness, these things talk back, right? Or they're always like, you know, barking down, breathing down my neck and I can turn and talk to it and actually have a dialogue with it.
[00:27:59] John: That is two [00:28:00] way like two people talking to each other or the fact that I am multiple Right and that doesn't necessarily make me crazy or me and I have dissociative identity disorder or whatever so I just use humor and levity in my work and offer that I know this this might sound kind of strange But could you turn and talk to it?
[00:28:19] John: Could you ask it how old it is? And I know this sounds weird. Could you ask it how old it thinks you are? Just see if you get anything. I don't know if you'll get anything. Go ahead and ask and the client goes, okay Well, whatever I'm just gonna do this thing because my therapist is asking me to go.
[00:28:35] Monica: Mm hmm.
[00:28:36] John: Oh, well, he he's Seven and he's saying he's saying he also thinks I'm seven. Okay, interesting Go ahead and let him know that you're not seven, right? Let him know that you're 34. Show him that you're 34. Let him see you physically and take you in. What's that like for the two of you? Oh, [00:29:00] he's, he's surprised.
[00:29:01] John: Oh, he's a little relieved. Okay, yeah, just hang out there with him. With him being relieved and surprised so The best way to get conviction about the model is to experience it, right? Whether you're a therapist or a client and just be communing with your own parts and see how that that is Going to your question around faith on one hand a lot of times we introduce the model by talking about parts I think perhaps a better introduction is talking about self and self energy and I did An episode recently on this where I just kind of shared some additional Details Offerings in terms of expanding our definition of self energy, but I would invite the client to Create their own definition of self or self energy And if that means pulling in their faith and pulling in their experience of god Or thinking about self as the god image inside of me Thinking about self or self energy as love if we think well, the whole model is [00:30:00] basically love And inside me at my core That is my heart.
[00:30:06] John: That is my soul. In its deepest nature True and wise and full of love Then basically all the model is is bringing love to the pissed off parts of me and the hurt scared parts of me Yeah, and is that an idea clients can get on board with and loop that into their? their faith background. I have clients that are Christian.
[00:30:27] John: I have clients that are Muslim. I just invite them to make it work for their worldview and also to reject it if it doesn't make sense or it feels sacrilegious. Again, we're always just defaulting to the client and coming in to someone's system with, with humility.
[00:30:44] Monica: Yeah, I love that. I have a similar approach to that.
[00:30:47] Monica: I always ask clients, you know, does it make sense to you? Does it feel right for you? Because that's not the only route for us to go, right? Yeah, we can continue the route that we're [00:31:00] going. Or if you're seeking something more specific, like EMDR, I can refer you out. But we don't have to go this route, but usually 99 percent of the time people will say, I'm curious about, right.
[00:31:14] Monica: And then they end up really loving the model. That's right. I think one thing that I love about IFS is this idea that I usually joke, I can blame the part, right? So there was a part of me that feels a certain way. And I think clients, you know, sometimes when they start saying I am this, I'm And I help them by perhaps rephrasing that and saying there is a part of me that feels this way, right?
[00:31:41] Monica: And it's just like, yes, it's a part. It's not me. And the part has its reasons to feel what it feels and to act the way it's acting. And I think that brings so much more self compassion to sessions and to people's everyday lives.
[00:31:59] John: [00:32:00] Yeah, that's the paradigm shift, right, is that parts get into polarized roles because of polarized, polarizing experiences, aka traumas, in one's life.
[00:32:11] John: And so the stance of IFS in itself is de shaming, right? It's a part of you that likes to drink. Right, what could be good about drinking? Can you ask that part? What could be good about drinking? What what could be good about continuing to drink? What could be scary about not drinking and really just let that part have the microphone?
[00:32:29] John: It's it's a beautiful way to create space in someone's system and to de shame. Going back to this aspect of just offering things to the client of see if this feels right a core marker of trauma for most people is people bypassed their intuition in the trauma You Right at some point they might have had a thought of This is not safe or this person is not safe or the situation is not safe or this person is not being kind to me Whatever, but I'm gonna [00:33:00] suck it up and just do it anyway or stay in a partnership with this person, right?
[00:33:05] John: Even though they're hurting me. So right if part of how they got here is Bypassing their intuition the risk is they do that again in therapy Right? And therapists in our power and in this chair that we sit in that has a ton of power inherently That is a constant risk even with IFS is that clients end up bypassing their intuition Because of wanting to be a good client and wanting to be compliant and going.
[00:33:30] John: Yeah, I'll do this parts thing Yeah, sure. I'll get to know the seven year old even though inside they have parts that are going no, no, no, no No, this is a horrible idea Right? Because you're going to dissociate, you're going to feel flooded, you, you might relapse, right? I'm going to start cutting myself again.
[00:33:45] John: And the therapist is going, yeah, just get to know that part. Yeah, go help that little boy. Right? So we can have our self like parts that come in with an agenda and want to really push this stuff. On on our clients because we so want to help and because it's so hard to see people [00:34:00] suffering Right and see people really traumatized and stuck and at the same time if we lead the client to to bypass their intuition Again, it the work is re traumatizing.
[00:34:10] John: So it's just a word of caution for all of us to To keep that in mind.
[00:34:16] Monica: Absolutely Wow, it's been great so much good amazing information I appreciate you having me here
[00:34:24] John: Thank you for doing this. This was a treat for me. And I'm just, I'm sure people can tell I'm so passionate about the work and the model about trauma and, and about this model and what, what it can do for people.
[00:34:37] John: So thank you for doing this and bringing such great questions. I hope it was helpful and love to do it again sometime.
[00:34:43] Monica: Yeah, no, it was very, very helpful. You got a lot of my questions answered. I really appreciate the work you do on the podcast. Please keep doing it. I'm always listening to it and learning so much.
[00:34:57] Monica: Everything that I've been learning from your podcast [00:35:00] has been helped me personally, but mainly professionally. And thank you because you were the one who introduced IFS to, to me, you know, so keep doing great work. It's, it's certainly been helping a lot of. Folks out there.
[00:35:15] John: Thank you so much. That that's wonderful.
[00:35:17] John: And it, it is so great to like, yeah, you know, meet a listener and see that the work is, is helping some people. So that that's kind of all I need in order to keep going and keep doing this work. So thank you for that. And thanks again for, for doing this. All right, keep in touch. Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside.
[00:35:39] John: If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, @JohnClarkeTherapy and apply to work with me one on one at JohnClarketherapy. com. See you next time.