Transforming and Healing Trauma Through Somatic Experiencing ft. Jake White
Transforming and Healing Trauma Through Somatic Experiencing ft. Jake White
In this episode, we’re joined by Jake White, a trauma-informed somatic practitioner. John and Jake delve into the realm of somatic experiencing and trauma, exploring Jake's personal journey, insights into the nervous system, and the significance of connection in the healing process.
Key Topics Discussed:
1. Introduction to Somatic Experiencing:
- Jake provides an overview of somatic experiencing, emphasizing its focus on the body's role in trauma healing and regulation of the nervous system.
2. Personal Healing Journey:
-Jake shares his personal experience of navigating trauma and how it led him to become a practitioner, highlighting the importance of acceptance and connection in his healing process.
3. Nervous System Regulation:
- The conversation explores practical approaches to regulating the nervous system, including Jake's techniques and videos shared on his Instagram, @jakewhitehealing.
4. Reframing Masculinity and Sensitivity:
- Both John and Jake reflect on societal expectations around masculinity and the value of embracing sensitivity, challenging traditional norms.
5. Hope and Connection in Trauma Healing:
- The episode concludes with a discussion on the significance of hope, connection, and seeking support in the journey of trauma healing.
For more information from Jake White, visit his website at https://www.jakewhitehealing.com/
Interview transcript:
[00:00:00] John: This is going inside healing trauma from the inside out hosted by me, licensed trauma therapist, John Clark going inside as a weekly podcast on a mission to help you heal from trauma and connect with your authentic self. Tune in for enlightening guests, interviews, immersive solo, deep dives, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations.
[00:00:27] John: Follow me on socials at John Clark therapy on Instagram. Tick tock and YouTube and apply to work with me one on one at johnclarktherapy. com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in excited to introduce my guests for today. Jake White has a background in somatic experiencing and integrative energy medicine.
[00:00:48] John: He's been in private practice for 10 years and specializes in helping people recover from traumatic stress through supporting the body and nervous system. Jake works one on one through coaching. [00:01:00] And also leads group retreats and programs. Jake's also the father of two young boys and lives on a farm in West Virginia with his wife and family.
[00:01:08] John: He comes from a farming background and his connection with nature has greatly influenced his search for somatic approaches to healing. Jake, thank you again so much for, for being here. And yeah, what else should people know about you in terms of maybe expanding on that intro a little bit as to who you are and how you got here with this work?
[00:01:27] Jake: Yeah, I think I I came to it. I think like most healers, therapists, like I was looking for my own, my own healing initially. Yeah, I think around 18 years old, I was struggling with a lot of like depression and you know, hyper vigilance, dysregulation and depression. Yeah, I think of my initially in my journey, I realized that that wasn't the way I was supposed to be.
[00:01:52] Jake: I wasn't supposed to live a life that was full of anxiousness and anxiety. So, but I, I, I had an awareness that [00:02:00] it was like, you know, I needed to, all these feelings were inside. That was one of my initial awarenesses. It's like, okay, I'm holding on a lot of stress and tension in my body. So that took me into meditation.
[00:02:12] Jake: So. I started to learn that initial just how to get present with my body, how to like really quiet my mind down enough to be able to feel things. And then, and then I started to get into more of like energy medicine and then somatic work. And then I think, I think the somatic work really helped me a lot because it helped me to learn how to address things through.
[00:02:33] Jake: Like sensations and following my own nervous system. I think I regained a trust in my, my own body, you know, and that my own intuition and that I felt like, Oh, well, my body actually can take care of a lot of these things and I can feel things and that. You know, it lightens and it doesn't stay anxious or, you know, tense.
[00:02:53] Jake: And, you know, a lot of my challenges at first were feeling like a lot of low self esteem [00:03:00] and self judgment. And when I started to tune in with my body, I realized that like when I felt more regulated, you know, I, a lot of that self judgment started to release and. just realizing that a lot of that self judgment was the way I suppressed my own emotions and like was able to hide myself from people and protect myself.
[00:03:19] Jake: So once I felt more regular, I felt a little more open and, you know, expansive and more at ease. And I felt like, Oh, that's, that's myself. That's who I am. So of course that naturally took me into wanting to like offer that for other people and, you know, help people learn about their own body and their own nervous system and you know, how to trust themselves again and actually feel comfortable.
[00:03:40] Jake: You know, and so yeah,
[00:03:43] John: well, this, this idea of trust and safety is something that comes up so much in working with, with clients. Right. And, you know, and in my case being a trauma therapist, right? And a lot of clients, I hear them say, that they don't trust [00:04:00] themselves anymore, right? Or like trusting their intuition or even thinking about anxiety as this kind of misfiring of, I'm constantly on edge and I constantly feel like something bad's about to happen.
[00:04:11] John: And when I felt that for so long, it feels pretty true. And Oh, by the way, something bad did happen and it might happen again. So if you have a therapist who has maybe, let's say a very kind of cognitive approach of almost like arguing with that anxiety, there's something about that internally that just still doesn't feel true or trusted.
[00:04:31] John: It's like a friend reassuring you of like, Oh dude, I'm sure you're fine. You know, I'm sure nothing bad's going to happen. It's like, what if, but what if, but what if, or you don't know, right. You don't know if I'm going to get assaulted again or whatever it is. Right. So maybe you can, yeah. Just kind of riff on that a little bit more, this idea of, of trust and self and, and kind of internal safety that you hope your clients restore.
[00:04:53] Jake: Yeah, well, I think if we don't feel safe, there's, there's a reason, you know, and you can't argue with that reason, you know[00:05:00] if the body's reacting in some way, you know, through like wanting to run or tensing or feeling more tight and, and anxious, that's a, that's a signal of alert and threat, you know, so.
[00:05:12] Jake: Our body is sending a signal to us that, okay, we need to move. We need to get away from something. So, you know, that might not be true in the president when we're always bombarded by our anxiety. But that information was true in the past, you know, so that's something we need to learn is that this is an experience of my body protecting myself.
[00:05:32] Jake: You know yeah, it's a drag and it's a obstacle. It doesn't feel great, but that just learning that our body's trying to, it's trying to express something. It's trying to move through something. You know, and that when we give that room, it's that protective response can move through our body, you know, and that's what begins to actually, like, once we release that, then the body can kind of come down and feel safe and, you know, settle.
[00:05:54] Jake: So, like, safety actually comes through that process of expressing through, you know, our [00:06:00] survival response or through our dysregulation you know, and then just realizing that we, you know, we don't stay anxious, you know, we don't stay in threat. That, you know, we actually it's trying to get us to somewhere trying to get us to safety, you know, we don't we don't run from the tiger to stay in front of the tiger.
[00:06:16] Jake: We try to get away back to safety. So if we're honoring these responses, we're following those natural cycles of being able to. Get away and then find a sense of rest and safety, you know, afterwards. So, yeah.
[00:06:30] John: Yeah. Honoring those responses, right? Versus a lot of clients will come in and they'll kind of say, like, I want to get this out of me, right?
[00:06:38] John: Like, I want to be done with this feeling. I want to kind of control this feeling. Like I call it a C word in therapy, you know, a lot of control this anxiety or whatever it is. I need to make sure people don't know that I'm anxious and there's that piece around perceived vulnerability or weakness or what if I'm anxious and people find out.
[00:06:57] John: Right. And it's kind of a [00:07:00] paradigm shift to, to actually, yeah, honor these feelings, these sensations to trust that the body actually knows what to do. If we can help it along or completing this process when we were traumatized or in the, in the Event of being traumatized. That process couldn't complete, right.
[00:07:18] John: No matter if it was last week or in many cases decades ago for our clients.
[00:07:24] Jake: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I heard a teacher recently said that, you know, the, we don't protect ourself from the past. We protect ourself from the past happening again, you know, and so that's in the future. So, you know, it's like, yeah, we just need to be aware of that.
[00:07:40] Jake: It's like, it's these responses are trying or preparing us for something happening again. Yeah, we're always kind of treating our nervous system is treating the present and the future as if the past is going to, is going to happen. So, you know, back to what you said about safety, it's really important to know that, like, we can move through those responses.
[00:07:59] Jake: And then, [00:08:00] you know, maybe we can have a new relationship with the present that, you know, that is does mean that we're a little more settled and a little more safe. And so we can actually engage in the moment, not treat, you know, the, the future and the present, like the past is going to happen. You know, anticipatory response that we have.
[00:08:18] Jake: So yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:20] John: So for many clients, I'm curious if you experience this like if we just as a blanket prescription, so to speak, say like everyone should meditate. But for some people, the sensation of like closing their eyes and kind of going inside and focusing on what's happening internally is extremely distressing.
[00:08:37] John: Right? So we do a lot of things to not Feel that right? Distract or drink or whatever. Work to work a lot or workout, whatever it is or dissociate. So in that case, like, how do you kind of start this process with your clients of Re establishing an internal safety or even that piece of like when mindfulness yeah, [00:09:00] that's really broadly like can actually be too intense for people.
[00:09:04] John: How do you start with your clients?
[00:09:05] Jake: Yeah, a lot of times you're, you know, you're trying to find kind of that edge, you know, you're, you're working more externally, you know, first, not directly towards our sensations and in our body. So, you know, a lot of times it's just like. building rapport, talking, you know, having a little bit of room just to get to know each other and talk.
[00:09:25] Jake: And then there are a lot of processes where we can start to look at, like, where is this person's strength? You know, I think that's always the first thing I want to see with a client. Like, what is, where is their strength? Maybe like witnessing their sensation. That's not their strength right now, but they're a good communicator or, or maybe even they have, you know, you always get a little cues, like they'll talk about a, Their their grandchild or, you know, so there's, there's, you're starting to kind of pull those pieces in of those resources for the person or some of, there is some external like factors that [00:10:00] they can really resource that is safe.
[00:10:02] Jake: And then from there, if we get talking about it and there's a little more comfort, then maybe we can take a moment and start to say like, okay, well, what are you noticing, you know, in your body right now? And so it's like, then we don't, we don't start witnessing. Our body and relating to our body through threat or trying to first, let's relate to our body through safety and, you know, co regulation with a person and connection.
[00:10:24] Jake: So it can be like a really slow process of like, we're talking about these things, but then we're dipping our toe into it. You know, we're kind of starting at the edge. Like, where is the safety at first? And then, you know, and then we're not even trying to go towards trauma or stress initially. I don't know if you have that same experience.
[00:10:43] Jake: I'd love to hear your input too.
[00:10:45] John: Yeah. Well, I, I know. So, yeah, my, I, I kind of came to trauma work through getting EMDR train, right? It's just really a brain therapy. And it's a form of exposure therapy. And you're kind of [00:11:00] reimagining this terrible thing that happened, helping your brain by stimulating both sides to help a memory go into long term storage.
[00:11:06] John: Now there, there's a physical response happening and it can be intense and clients can get super flooded. This was kind of my first, yeah. Like trauma treatment that I learned years ago, like 16 because up until that point, like a lot of therapists, I would just Help clients talk about what happened, not knowing that sometimes that can be harmful, right?
[00:11:27] John: Or that can put clients back into trauma and then they're 45 minutes up and I'll see you next week, right? And they walk out of there feeling very out of their bodies or very scared or angry or whatever it is. It's, it's happening, right? So realizing that just talking about it. Is not necessarily helpful, right?
[00:11:46] John: Yeah. Yeah. You know, fast forward to to last year when I discovered IFS internal systems, working with parts that are wounded and carrying the burden of what happened. And then weaving in things with [00:12:00] IFS. So weaving in IFS with EMDR was somatic work. There's a real somatic component to, to even parts, right?
[00:12:07] John: Of when you imagine this part of you that was scared and, you know, your family member was banging down the door and you were about to You know, be, get hit. Can you connect that part of you? And that's a very physical experience, usually from my clients. Same thing for an IFS. We have this unburdening sequence, right?
[00:12:28] John: Going in and helping that usually young, wounded part of you or that part is kind of, that's kind of stuck and frozen, helping it witnessing it, hearing it story, maybe having a do over into the present. Releasing it of thoughts, feelings, beliefs that it's been carrying. So there's a whole unburdening sequence that in my experience is also very physical.
[00:12:48] John: The first time I went through an unburdening sequence as a client, working through some of my own trauma it was so physical that. I was like cold. I was hot. I had chills. [00:13:00] I felt nauseous, right? It was so visceral to me. And it felt like my body completing this process. And I remembered and like G psych one on one, watching a video of this gazelle who had just narrowly escaped some attack from a lion and the wind and later tree.
[00:13:18] John: And it finished this physical, you know reaction, right? It was like twitching on the ground and finishing it. And it took some time and it looked like, you know, this convulsion almost. And then it was just kind of done with it. Yeah. Yep. Our problem is we have a different type of memory to where we store that memory.
[00:13:37] John: We're frozen in that. Right. We finished the physical process and then we sit looking at a computer for 47 hours a week. And I wonder why we feel so freaked out.
[00:13:46] Jake: yeah. Why we can't pick up our head and yeah, why we feel tense all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just amazing when you go through a process like that, you feel the intensity of what your body's holding, you know, [00:14:00] what you're trying to manage all the time.
[00:14:02] Jake: Like you said earlier around, like, you know, drinking or overworking, it's like, that's the way that we're, that's a container that we're creating for all those feelings that, you know, all those parts of us that are still connected to trauma, you know, so we're. Like, we're really just holding on to immense amount of survival energy, you know, in our body that's it's so it's so taxing, you know, for us.
[00:14:26] Jake: And, you know, and then I think, you know, too, we hold that in a lot of shame and self judgment to, you know, and we don't like you were saying, I don't want to talk about this. It's too vulnerable. And You know, so it's like, yeah, we're just, you know, we have to hold that in a negative really contained way and dysregulated way.
[00:14:45] Jake: So, yeah, a lot of energy.
[00:14:48] John: Totally. This piece around you know, in, in the, the somatic work you do as somatic experiencing folks talk about this idea of pendulation. Maybe you can speak a little [00:15:00] more to that. You were starting to mention that even with clients as you're getting started, kind of dipping your toes, you know maybe you can say more about that and why that piece is important in the worker, especially in the event or in the case of someone who's coming to you to work through trauma and what that looks like.
[00:15:16] Jake: Yeah, like a healthy nervous system is able to do this kind of natural swing. Back and forth and you know, in essay we call that pendulation. So like it's able to kind of pendulate and swing into our sympathetic response, or even to towards like our freeze response. Mm-Hmm, . But then once that thing's over and the event is over, that's causing us to feel triggered, then our nervous system naturally and swings back into more regulation into kind of a normal like everyday existence and how we want to engage with life.
[00:15:47] Jake: So there is that. Natural swing back and forth. But what trauma does is that we swing towards that sympathetic response and the reaction in our body is so much. And then the event is so [00:16:00] much that triggers that freeze to come in. And so it's like the body collapses around all that sympathetic energy. And so the nervous system isn't able to kind of swing back into into regulation when it's when it's safe.
[00:16:13] Jake: So like that's an S. E. That's what we're always trying to create in some way is that that ability for a client to be able to touch into their stress response. Like I had a client, you know, recently who talked about, they're talking about a parent and all of a sudden their, their shoulders tighten, their neck tightened, all the energy went into their head, they were going into a sympathetic response.
[00:16:37] Jake: And so, you know, I asked them, like, like, before that, they were very regulated, they were very open and relaxed. And I asked them, well, you know, can we go towards that feeling in the body that where you just felt really tense, you know, in relation to that topic we just brought up, and they were able to go towards it.
[00:16:56] Jake: You know, and then they were able to release it a little bit and feel some of that temperature [00:17:00] change and the shaking. And then, you know, all of a sudden, like we were able to kind of reference back to that safety was that was there beforehand. And so, you know, we were just creating that pendulum swing back and forth, you know, so we get we get used to that over time.
[00:17:16] Jake: It's like we can go towards a stress response and then. like pendulate back and be able to find more regulation afterwards. So, yeah, so great. Yeah. That's really well, well explained there. You know, I, I also find that sometimes clients come in and it's like my teenage clients call it trauma dumping or whatever.
[00:17:37] Jake: Come in and almost. involuntarily just start getting, putting themselves into their trauma, kind of flooding themselves. They're so used to, to kind of doing that and you can see how flooded they are. And so interrupting that process, even like in a first session and just prompting them. It was like, when you think about, Your dad, what's happening inside?
[00:17:59] Jake: Just [00:18:00] for a moment, can you experience that? Notice that tension. Okay. Yeah. So just notice your shoulders did that. Yeah. Yep. Insist on continuing with the story of it. Or it might be, I gotta tell you the story of it. Right. So you can help me process and building some of that awareness is so important. Yeah.
[00:18:19] Jake: Yeah. I'd like to look at it as like a river, you know, if we're in our dysregulation. It's like we're kind of, we're getting, we're in the river and it's like sucking us down, you know, away. Like, so if we don't have that, like, regulation and the ability to kind of slow ourself down or we don't really have a foundation, like a bank to kind of sit on where, you know, where we're not just getting swept away.
[00:18:47] Jake: So I think sometimes we see our clients where they're very much in there, they're very much swept away and, you know, in their trauma response and their dysregulation. So yeah.
[00:18:59] John: To the [00:19:00] point you've made when we first started around
[00:19:02] John: like So for instance, I remember when I was growing up, I would go for a long time without getting my eyes checked and then I would get a new prescription and I'm like, Oh my goodness, I didn't know things could look so differently or look so much more clear. Right. For, for, for folks that carry so much tension or like you even mentioned when you were younger and you're 18 or whatever, it's like.
[00:19:26] John: Not knowing that that's not normal, quote unquote, or that not everyone is feeling that level of distress internally all the time. And I was certainly that, that teenager. And so the label for, for, for me as a teenager was ADHD, right? Cause I couldn't sit still. So it must be an ADHD thing, right? No one asked about trauma or what I was feeling.
[00:19:49] John: It was just like, Let's medicate him so he can sit still, right? When my body was telling me to do anything but sit still, right? And even today as an adult and going through a lot [00:20:00] of my own trauma work, gone through EMDR, gone through IFS and then. A spaciousness that happens or even after that unburdening, I was mentioning the spaciousness where like my stomach feels open.
[00:20:12] John: My chest feels open. It's that it's almost like having new vision, right? And things happen in my life and I don't fly off the handle, right? Not everything is a threat. The client recently of like imagine for a second, you're in the middle of your work day and you look down at your phone and someone important in your life just texts you and you see a text and it just says, Hey, can we talk?
[00:20:38] Jake: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:43] Jake: I can, I can only imagine what my response would be. So yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:51] John: I'm in trouble. This is bad. Yeah,
[00:20:54] Jake: whatever. Yeah. We've died.
[00:20:57] John: Yeah. Yeah. Or if someone like, I also [00:21:00] mentioned cause, cause I also have, you know, like a loud inner critic. So if someone is like Hey, can I share some feedback with you?
[00:21:07] John: I have parts up around that, like right away, you know, that, that, that tense up and get ready and we're going to defend, we're going to fight and we're going to maybe get into this kind of debate about who's bad, right. Yeah. Versus right. Like. In IFS terms, when I'm in cell for accessing more self energy, more openness, more curiosity, it's like, I can, can I be curious to what this person is saying and be open to these ideas whether or not I believe them to be true, like, Hey, here's some feedback.
[00:21:37] John: Or even if one of my clients is like, yeah, actually that session like didn't help or this EMDR stuff. Like I don't think it works for me to just hear that. Right. And go, yeah. Tell me more about that. Tell me more about how it's not working. Okay. Okay. So, and, and I should say a cue for me is what's my body doing when they're sharing that feedback?
[00:21:57] John: Am I feeling that openness? That spaciousness is [00:22:00] my stomach going like that. tinting up. And can I notice that and be with that and reassure, you know, my parts that are kind of bringing on this reaction or getting me ready
[00:22:10] Jake: for something? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think it's like a, like what you're saying, there's a kind of this opening or new.
[00:22:18] Jake: New lens or new perspective, like you're seeing differently. But I think regulation, it is an expansion, you know, like we're moving more towards our, that regulated part of our nervous system, that social engagement system that, you know, is able to see. Open up and be more receptive to people. And you know what people have to say.
[00:22:38] Jake: So it's that opening towards social engagement is more of like a yeah, it's taking in new information. It's a it's a it's a growth, you know, place where if we're in our, you know, sympathetic nervous system, we're needing to. Disengage from social interaction where, you know, we're in more of like, I need to, I need to run or I need to, to fight [00:23:00] this, you know, so yeah, so I think it's so important to see that there actually is a, you know, we are on in a different place physiologically when we are opening up and like what you're saying when I'm more receptive to information and like I'm more in a social engagement system.
[00:23:15] Jake: So what is that going to be filtered through? It's not going to be filtered through threat. It's going to be filtered through more of a sense of relationship and You know, I'm not going to be running away or avoiding. So that's been really helpful for me to understand, like, if I'm not receptive and I'm really reactive and that I'm starting to go into a whole different process within my physiology, I'm going into my sympathetic nervous system or like, and, or I might even notice that I'm not even there and I'm moving towards that, that freeze, but I'm going.
[00:23:46] Jake: Away from, from regulation away from safety. And I think we always want to learn how we can start to kind of bring ourself back into more, more engagement and just be more open and receptive. And I think we like get [00:24:00] sucked down into like our aperture gets really small when we're. And we, you know, we can start to open up to take in more, more information.
[00:24:09] Jake: So yeah, exactly.
[00:24:14] John: Maybe you could share a little more about kind of, kind of why and how you chose somatic experiencing as a, as a model to, to learn. I mean, within all these, these models there's so many to choose from. And even for clients, there's so many. Acronyms to choose from. So, so what, what was it about somatic experiencing that kind of made sense to you and still makes sense to you?
[00:24:37] John: And even what was it like to go through that, that training to learn how to do this work with your clients?
[00:24:42] Jake: Yeah, I think it, it, my draw towards it came from nature, you know, I'd always, I'd grown up on a farm and like, so I was constantly around nature, around animals, and that was like, kind of my first connection, source of connection was, was animals and nature and like being connected to [00:25:00] the dog or the, the cow and, you know, my parents would always bring calves in, in the winter to keep them warm and I was always there like, With them and hugging them and kissing them and stuff like that.
[00:25:10] Jake: So but then when I learned that, oh, there was this technique that work with the nervous system, the way that described it about like wildlife and nature, having these natural ways of releasing tension and stress from their body. That just really, really spoke to me just being so connected to nature and outdoors and stuff like that.
[00:25:30] Jake: So yeah, that's, that's really, I think what, what drove me into also like in my. With my client base, there are people coming in with these, just at that time when I was becoming curious about SE. Some people came in with some traumas that were really, really intense. And I just realized, like, I didn't really know what to do with them, you know?
[00:25:51] Jake: I didn't know how to be with them. And when I started to learn about S. E. being like a technique that is not about [00:26:00] overwhelming, like in re exposing people to the trauma that there's a real need to take it really slow and like in order to honor those natural responses of the body, there needs to be a lot of slowness and like teaching and regulating through that and being able to kind of touch into it in a slow, Like gradual way that really spoke to me with these clients that I saw that were just really overwhelmed You know that maybe there was a way that you know I could do this safely with them and help them to You know process these things without being exposed to them because I just saw like kind of like what you said with your Clients like they came in so dysregulated.
[00:26:36] Jake: So yeah, you know, wow, we can we can work with this trauma thing, you know so yeah the in the training itself was just so experiential too when I went to it and like immediately we were starting to practice on our ourselves and then practice with with people and learning the basic understanding the techniques.
[00:26:56] Jake: And, you know, so the that really just drew me to it because [00:27:00] I love experiential learning and stuff like that. So yeah, yeah, I got a lot of personally for my own nervous system. I think that kind of drove me into it too, because I, you know, I had these practitioners helping me too, and I was working on them and.
[00:27:15] Jake: You know, it was just a real blessing to be doing it with people. I think trauma is meant to be done with, with other human beings. You know, that trauma actually, like we all have these experiences and it connects us with each other. So I felt so like I had these stories and these, this body and these feelings, but they were so connected to all these other people and the groups and the training that also we're learning together and growing together.
[00:27:41] Jake: So yeah, yeah. Yes.
[00:27:43] John: Wonderful. Yeah. So I, I've connected with you through Instagram and it was a, like a recommended video that the SC folks had like reshared of yours and you know, you put together some of these really nice Exercises that you're kind of walking your followers [00:28:00] through and you've got a lot of people following you now and, and kind of learning from you.
[00:28:04] John: So what's it been like to, to kind of share some of your some of these techniques on, on Instagram and maybe while you're here, even plug your Instagram so people can see what I'm talking about.
[00:28:15] Jake: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think I, I just offer what I, what I do with my own nervous system and then, you know, of course I, what I do with clients, so.
[00:28:25] Jake: In those videos, but yeah, I just find like, you know, one of the things that I do is I lay down on the floor like at night and I just let my body like shake and, you know, feel those different sensations and I try to follow it and you know, and so that's a video like I posted and I think a lot of people loved it, you know, cause it's just really practical.
[00:28:44] Jake: I think. That's what I've always tried to gear my nervous or my Instagram towards is trying to be as practical as humanly possible. Like, you know, when I'm, when I'm dysregulated, like, what do I do? Like, what should you do in those moments? You know, how do you work with that, [00:29:00] that response in your, in your body?
[00:29:02] Jake: You know, how do you feel it? So that's just what I offer in the, you know, in those videos. So mainly it's just what I do with myself. And clients and what I see that really is helpful in work.
[00:29:13] John: I think that was actually the video that I first saw and I was like, what does this dude doing laying on the ground?
[00:29:19] John: And why have so many people like this video? And then how simple it was. So at, at Jake white healing on Instagram, we'll put links to this of course, but yeah, lots of great stuff there. And I think in this world of kind of like. Instagram showing, teaching people something in just less than 30 seconds is a big part of how we learn.
[00:29:41] John: Right. And how people are, people are kind of looking for these nuggets of like, what can I do today to help myself? Right. So a lot of that stuff that I see you teaching fits well in that category of like, a lot of people are really, really hurting and really feeling. Really dysregulated all the time, really [00:30:00] dissociated all the time.
[00:30:01] John: Right. Or again, like being in my body, quote unquote, feels, can feel really bad and really unsafe.
[00:30:06] Jake: I just want to, I want people to see their, their body is like, you know, it's, it's something that we can, we can help in something we can move through. And, you know, there are tools and resources to be able to, to be able to do that, we can constantly be supporting ourself in some way, no matter what.
[00:30:20] Jake: It is we're, we're experiencing and, you know, a lot of times it's the, it's the simplest thing we can do is the most effective, which is a lot of times just being with it and feeling it and, you know, and processing it and connecting in some way and, you know, with ourself in those, in those moments. You know, it's like that we have a human experience that we need to live out.
[00:30:42] Jake: So, you know, let's let that let it be there in the moment and actually feel that that human experience that we're having and yeah, that's connected to, you know, nature and, you know, the earth and wild animals and, you know, that they can do it too. So like we can as well and we're, [00:31:00] you know, we're connected to that through our nervous system.
[00:31:02] John: So cool. You know, it's ironically just kind of being with the feelings, the sensations, the body, whatever, kind of moving toward is for a lot of my clients, it doesn't feel like productive. And there's a lot of these values, even just living in the country where we live, where everything has to be like productive and maximizing, like, what are we going to do about it?
[00:31:24] John: Right? What are we gonna do about these feelings? Right? Again, like, you got to get them out of me. So for a lot of my clients, like, This invitation to like kind of go toward or even again. And a lot of my work with parts is like, can you get to know that part? Can you actually invite it all the way forward?
[00:31:40] John: So let's say a part that carries anger. And a lot of times clients might come in and go, well, you know, I had this fight with my partner and I raised my voice. And so now I'm here in therapy, right? There's all this shame.
[00:31:50] John: And so they assume that they're, you know, what I'm going to do is help get that anger out of you or control that anger.
[00:31:56] John: Right. Yeah. And so I literally did this with the client. So can you connect with that [00:32:00] anger right now? Or when you connect with that fight you had and that anger that came out of you, can you find that in your body right now? Well, yeah, it's okay. Where, where is it? Well, it's like in my stomach. Is it okay?
[00:32:13] John: Just close your eyes and get to know a little bit. Can you get curious about it? Right. And start to get to know it. What's, why is it there? What's it trying to do for you? Can you ask it how old it is? Right. All that. And then we're just kind of off to the races with it. Right. But they're almost confused.
[00:32:28] John: Like I hate my anger and I figured my therapist would hate it with me too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Let me get this, get this out of me.
[00:32:36] Jake: Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think that's what we're constantly doing. It's like, this is wrong or bad. It's like, you know, it's the way we're kind of like trying to ball it up and throw it in the, in the dumpster or something, but like in that, that just doesn't, it just doesn't work, you know, because it's creating more stress.
[00:32:53] Jake: onto an already stressed out nervous system. And that's I think that's something I realized for myself is like [00:33:00] when I hated something like hated a part of me or hated a feeling, it was like I was already dysregulated. So when I started hating myself, it was like created more dysregulation. I was trying to reject something in order to, you know, to feel better.
[00:33:14] Jake: And, you know, that type of separation just never created any. Relief. It wasn't until I started to like accept it and realize that, oh, I can, I can accept these things and I can be with them, you know, and I can actually even maybe even welcome them and, you know, love them in some way, you know, and that's, I think that just goes right to the core of what a lot of these things come from.
[00:33:36] Jake: It's a need for, for nurturing, you know, it's a need to be seen or like a need for that dysregulation to be supported in some way. I think there's always in trauma, there's this, connection, the social aspect that we need, you know, that in that trauma and that shame and It's really, really disregarded and really like, you know, pushed away, you know, [00:34:00] and, and held in like this really alone, alone place, you know.
[00:34:03] John: So many of our clients have this kind of worthlessness burden, right?
[00:34:10] John: I'm worthless. I'm broken. If people only knew. X, y, and Z about me. Right? They would leave me. Yeah. They would withdraw love, whatever it is. So a lot of folks, even some of my clients who don't have a trauma history carry that Mm-hmm. Deep inside Mm-Hmm. And over some months of working with me, perhaps they might tell me about it.
[00:34:30] John: Mm-Hmm. , right? Mm-Hmm. . Or in fact, that client I was mentioning before with the anger, right? Mm-Hmm. . So the first layer is like, Mm-Hmm. got angry at your wife and yelled, and that's why you're here. Yeah. Yep. What was really happening was. That part, a part that carries a lot of fear around leaving me, or when we fight, there's a part that goes, is this her leaving me?
[00:34:49] John: And if so, I should do something about it. Right. And that part kind of makes a mess of the situation. And then another part judges what just happened. And again, come in and there's this thick layer of [00:35:00] shame that. Is there in the room immediately? Like what does it mean that you're here asking for help? Or in my case probably similar to you.
[00:35:08] John: I work with a lot of men. So this layer of shame around like, yeah, what's it like to, to be here in the first place that you had this big fight and you were horrified with how angry you got. And your wife was like, go to therapy or else. And now you're here, you know, with your head, with your head down in the principal's office.
[00:35:28] Jake: Yeah. And I, and you did. Just by being like regulated. I'm sure your reaction to his anger was maybe very different than the shame You became curious and like and Relaxed and I feel that a lot with my clients, you know, they'll they'll talk about something or mention something and I yeah I just feel like I'm really there, you know, and And curious and you know saying like, okay.
[00:35:52] Jake: Well, yeah what does it feel like just to be able to speak about that and like talk about something that you haven't been able to talk about and [00:36:00] Like a lot of times the client will say like, Oh, I feel, wow, I feel a lot of relief, you know, it's like, I don't have to hold that in and, you know, and also like no one's telling me right now that I'm no one's reinforcing that shame that I'm like kind of expecting and used to, you know, there's a reinforcing that, okay, this actually can be here and it belongs.
[00:36:19] Jake: And, you know, so, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's nice to know we can be nice to ourselves and that it works. I think that's a, that's a, it's such a blessing, you know, to learn that. It's like, if I'm really kind to myself and. That actually works.
[00:36:35] John: Well it's a Paradox, right? It's like, again, most people, they think I need to be harder on myself, right?
[00:36:41] John: It's anger, whatever it is, right? Like a lot to lack of discipline, but healing doesn't work that way, right? It's like, if you were trying to help a friend heal, would you go and be harder on him? There's also a lot of that culture just in. [00:37:00] What we consume and then like this kind of like tough guy, culture, whatever, again, even just thinking about all the work with around, like being efficient and controlled and measured and infallible.
[00:37:14] John: And, and then all of a sudden I'm asking you to do something very different toward it and honor it. And, you know, yeah it's a shift for a lot of, a lot of our clients.
[00:37:26] Jake: Yeah. I mean, I, I know for me, but growing up around men and like my father's, you know, constantly like man up and, you know hold your head up and, you know, so like every time I felt a sense of shame or, you know, I thought like, gosh, there's something really wrong with me and the way, the fact that I'm feeling this sensitivity or, you know, feeling overwhelmed, like I didn't feel like I had it.
[00:37:51] Jake: I wasn't meeting the expectations of what a man should be, you know? And yeah, but I, I realized that, you know, [00:38:00] that wasn't authentic, you know, for me, like not being with my feelings, that wasn't authentic. Always trying to be like my dad and all the other men and those examples of being tough and holding your head up.
[00:38:12] Jake: And that was not, that wasn't authentic to like you know, vulnerable, sensitive, like. Little boy and man, you know that so yeah, I think it was like for me I was redefining myself and you know, what it what it whatever that looked like for me to be a man You know rather than like I'm sure you've gotten those messages to of what culture wants from us.
[00:38:35] John: Well, I I never saw my dad cry, you know Ever ever ever ever not even close to it. And so You know, for me as a kid and as a teenager with a lot of feelings and big feelings I already felt like I was violating something, you know, right off the bat or even being told that I was too sensitive, you know, which I've been told my whole life, even to this day.
[00:38:59] John: [00:39:00] I was seeing a doctor recently and, she has said, she said this three times. She's like, well, you're a sensitive guy. She was saying it in a negative way. I was like, you know I'm keenly aware of my body for better or worse. And I noticed things like pain or a medication or a slight headache.
[00:39:17] John: Right. But you know, hearing that label or even being young and hearing that ironically, that sensitivity, Yeah. Is one of the very things that I need and use to be a good therapist. Sensitizing myself to my clients and the person in front of me. Now there's the other side of that too, which is I'm walking down the street and I see someone.
[00:39:40] John: And I can just see in their eyes that they have a lot of pain in their lives. And I feel that. And I take some of that on. Right. So there's, there's that side of being a person who's, you know, kind of tunes into people and that affects me. I can't just shut that off nor what I want to, but also [00:40:00] I've been told my whole life that.
[00:40:02] John: Being sensitive, being a sensitive little boy was definitely not a good thing. You know, something that we needed to, to work on.
[00:40:09] Jake: Yeah. I love how you're, you see both sides of it, you know, that it's, it's like a blessing and a curse at the same time in a way. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. How does that feel to have both sides?
[00:40:25] Jake: Totally. Does that bring relief to see, be able to see it from all those different angles?
[00:40:31] John: I think it does now, you know, and, and really honoring that I also I, I've always have creative outlets in my life. So I, I started acting, I became an actor a few years ago and there's a, an acting program called Meisner and literally that whole program is sensitizing you to the other person.
[00:40:49] John: Right? So if I was talking to you right now and we're doing like a scene and I'm talking and I look at you and I can tell you're a little bored or you're yawning because you're getting bored. Yeah. Then I'd be sensitive to that. And then [00:41:00] in my listener, I would go, Oh, you're, you're bored. You don't, you don't like, you don't care about what I'm saying.
[00:41:05] John: You would say that out loud. Cause you're kind of acting on impulse and a lot of good acting is just acting on impulse. Right. Or if you're, you know, doing a scene and all of a sudden someone's flirty. It's like. Oh, you're flirting. Now you would be sensitized to that shift, right? Or you're closed off.
[00:41:19] John: Like maybe you and I are talking and all of a sudden you're kind of closed off to something. Then I would notice that. And as an actor, it's a good thing to be highly sensitized to noticing that and being affected by that and going, Oh, you're closed off now. Or. You're not, you're not interested because that's real and that's me being affected.
[00:41:39] John: And that's what they end up training a lot of actors back into is like sensitizing yourself.
[00:41:44] Jake: Yeah.
[00:41:44] John: You've been trained for, at least in my case to, to, to desensitize yourself, I suppose.
[00:41:50] Jake: Yeah. It's like peeling an onion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always found that when I was little really difficult cause I, I was very sensitive too, but I always, since I was [00:42:00] so dysregulated, it kind of turned into this hyper vigilance.
[00:42:04] Jake: And I was, I was so aware of rejection, you know, and just have people's faces and their postures and, you know, and for me, it just felt like, Oh, everything got so big as a little kid, you know, it was so exposing. So I mean, it just. Like, it makes so much sense why I learned to, you know, suppress those feelings.
[00:42:22] Jake: So, you know, cause it was just so much to like, be that sensitive, you know? So yeah. Yeah.
[00:42:31] John: Yeah. I mean, it's clearly, we've got some overlap here. We've got a couple minutes left here and yeah, time, time has flown by. Anything else you want to make sure people kind of know about, I don't know what we've talked about, anything left unsaid.
[00:42:47] John: And then of course feel free to say a little more about kind of the work you do specifically with your clients and then how people can find you and reach out.
[00:42:55] Jake: Yeah. I don't know. I, I, well, the, the work that I do is like I work [00:43:00] usually one on one with people like coaching private sessions. I do it online through, through zoom and then also in person in my office in Winchester, Virginia.
[00:43:08] Jake: So yeah, it's always, it's always taking this nervous system based approach and kind of a body oriented approach to helping people to like regulate their nervous system and then like be able to go towards some of that stress response that maybe hasn't been able to be like processed and moved through and you know, and regulated.
[00:43:28] Jake: So, and just teaching them how to do that, you know, with someone here to help, help guide that. That process. So with them. And I think, you know, I guess that's something I would leave people with is just like the importance of having connection, you know, just to, to understand that trauma is something that we deal with alone.
[00:43:46] Jake: You know, it's at the time when it was overwhelming. So. It's just so important to be able to learn that we can deal with these things with people and that our nervous system is meant to connect, you know, it's meant to come out of [00:44:00] us and trauma. We're not supposed to live in that. We're supposed to move out of it and then be able to connect with other people.
[00:44:07] Jake: So just that really important component that a lot of those things that we're holding inside that we're so scared of is actually like you said, like parts of us that are waiting to be received and waiting to be connected. And, you know, I think that's what. Like you know, that's what a practitioner or coach or therapist represents is that, you know, that being that connection and that sense of co regulation stability, you know, for people.
[00:44:32] Jake: So that's that I think that's what really, if I could put my finger on one thing that helped me through my own healing process, it was when I started to open up to help, you know, and support when I, when I joined, I joined this group, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Like don't I saw a pamphlet that said healing.
[00:44:51] Jake: I was like, that's what I need.
[00:44:53] John: My marketing was That easy. I just put healing on a pamphlet and people sign up. [00:45:00]
[00:45:00] Jake: There was more of it. I just saw I zeroed in on that. But yeah, I stepped into this circle of like of people of adults and You know, there were like 30 people there and I sat down and like, I could just feel like, Oh, I finally, part of me was terrified, but this other part of me that wanted connection and been waiting to just be like met and be, you know, express myself, like I felt this, it's like this deep exhale and.
[00:45:26] Jake: You know, I just felt like, Oh my gosh, I've been waiting for this, you know, forever. So yeah, just like that, just being, you know, I think being open to support and connection is like a lot of times that's the first step in our healing journey. So, yeah.
[00:45:40] John: So, so much of this work is about hope. And a lot of, you know, an effect of trauma is a sense of hopelessness that I'm, I'm broken and I'm always going to feel this bad and this disconnected or this addicted or whatever it might be that piece around hope is so, so important.
[00:45:57] John: And I feel like in a way, in the world of trauma [00:46:00] therapy. It is actually quite new and young and people are like, Hey, have you read this body? Keeps the scorebook, right? Coming and saying that, right? And like, apparently your body has like a memory and that's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. So on one hand, I feel like a lot has developed in this world as we can offer in the world of trauma healing.
[00:46:20] John: And on the other hand, the, the best is yet to come in terms of what we can offer and what we understand about trauma and its impact. So in that regard, I'm excited for what we have and also excited for, for kind of what's ahead. And that piece around hope is just, is huge. Jake, thank you again for, for doing this.
[00:46:37] John: And Yeah. Great. Great to have you and hear about the work you're doing and how you got here. So jakewhitehealing. com and then Instagram at jakewhitehealing. We'll put links in the description of course. And Jake, thank you again for, for doing this.
[00:46:53] Jake: Yeah. Thank you for inviting me. It's great to be with you and your listeners too.
[00:46:58] John: Absolutely. Keep in [00:47:00] touch. Thanks again, Jake.
[00:47:01] Jake: Yeah, you're welcome. Take care.
Connect with John:
https://www.instagram.com/johnclarketherapy/